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10 person raids?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by EvilPeppard, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am not one for watching interviews as they are kind of boring, but here


    That puts the nail in the proverbial coffin I think.
  2. Warruz

    Warruz Cupcake

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    I would be very curious to know how many people who enjoyed 40 mans, where GM's and officers running the guild in those groups.
  3. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Why do you say that? Do you think it would be low or high?
    I was an officer back in a 40 man progression raiding guild.
    The GM and other officers were good friends of mine, and we always had a blast.
  4. Warruz

    Warruz Cupcake

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    Because the larger the size, the more "problems" a guild has that are not dependent on the game but rather the guild itself which requires more work. From someone who is just a member, the larger size for the most part just adds to the epicness. From an Officers or GM point of view there is also added work.
  5. Rentah

    Rentah Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would love 10man raids. but thats just me, because i loved the 10man raiding in Kharazan in WoW in TBC. it was small and comfortable. relaxing and fun :)
  6. Vyril

    Vyril Cupcake-About-Town

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    I ran a 40 man Raiding guild in WoW on Bloodhoof (Number 2 on the server for progression), even though it was tough at times to Manage 40 members it was sooooo much more rewarding when you killed bosses. My guild was an awesome group of members and each challenge we faced I made it fun and all our members enjoyed it.

    To this day my guild still raids even though I am no longer the Active guild master. They still talk about how 40 man were way more fun than 25 / 10 man.

    I still get previous players messaging me saying how that was the most fun they ever had in a video game.

    I haven't read all 20+ pages of this post but to make this a simple answer in my opinion is that Wildstar really just needs to have multiple tier raiding.

    1, 5, 10, 20, 40 person dungeon content.

    I know it's a tall order, but to be honest it's going to be exactly what the doctor order. You nearly cover all the different type of play styles.

    If anyone claims that it isn't fair that a 40 man gets the best gear then I hope they don't ever get mad that somebody straight out of college with no experience or doesn't work as hard gets paid more or equal to them.
  7. dRakk

    dRakk Cupcake

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    I led 40man raid guild in vanilla wow, and sure there is an element of time commitment, but there's also the ability to delegate... 40 people isn't that much.. (okay so 40 man raids was more like 50-60 players but you know)
    If you like to lead, or if it kinda just falls on you because you're good at it, then you'll take on that responsibility,
    if not then just join a guild were someone else is willing to do it
  8. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its not though. People just don't understand how to organize larger raids/guilds.

    In WoW today the officer is practically a meaningless title. Today, it usually just means you were in the guild a long time, or you were a founding member. Most 10 man guilds practically don't even require leadership.

    But back in Vanilla it actually meant something! It meant you helped organize the raid and guild.
    40 people is too much for one man to be responsible for, so he has to delegate responsibility out to his officers.

    You had the Raid Leader. Usually the Guild leader.
    You had your officers. They were in charge of such things as Recruitment, Healing Coordinator, Main Tank - Tank Coordinator, Leadership/Organization, General strategy.
    You had the Class Leaders. These people were in charge of helping new or less skilled players up their game. Anyone could go to these people for advice or help with their character.

    I was the Healing coordinating officer, and Shaman class leader.
    We all worked together to keep the raid on track and successful.

    Maybe my experience was unique though.
    I can only speak for my experiences in 40 man raiding.

    TLDR:
    40 mans require you to delegate responsibility to officers.
  9. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    10 Mans are fine if they are done the way they were in Wrath of The Lich King. Separate lockouts and similar but lesser gear than 25(in this case 20/40). In my experiences as a raider, in WOW and Rift, I've found 20 to be the best number.

    The list:

    10Man: Feels good, but not epic if you started out in 40+(Plus being w/e they had in EQ lol)
    25 man: sucks we can't raid because only 22 people logged in.
    40 man: AWESOME!!!!!until you get to the fights where everyone has to do their job effectively.
    20 mans: The epic feeling of a 25-40 with the consistency of numbers found in a 10 man.
    why go beyond this point? ^
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  10. Fingers

    Fingers Cupcake-About-Town

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    I remember raiding Naxx 40 and the guild being left helpless because the healers went on strike over some trivial matter :).

    It's just like anything else - more people you throw into the pot the more potential there is for drama and disruption.
  11. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Some times we healers need to let you know who's boss:) I'm your god. (lol not really)
  12. Fingers

    Fingers Cupcake-About-Town

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    :D.

    if memory serves it was over some rule that had been overlooked for one person that generally applied to all.

    Looking back it is quite funny, although wasn't at the time :roflamo:
  13. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its not a tall order. It is impossible!
    You can't update that much content on a regular basis. That means all the other raids suffer from a lack of content, just to make a minority the devs aren't trying to draw in happy.
    There are lots of other casual games out there doing 10 man raiding. If that is what people want, they should play those games.

    Besides, the devs have said countless times that 40 mans are the focus, with 20 mans on the side.
    I don't see the point in asking for this over and over, when we know it won't happen.
    Hell even if they would change their mind and include 10m, its too late into development atm.
  14. Warruz

    Warruz Cupcake

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    It is by definition more work, just by the mere fact that you even had to make this post to explain it. The point it seems your making is its not As much work as people think.

    I have been on both sides of the coin with 40 man raids, i have been a GM and just a normal member. My experience with them while not extensive is at least somewhat varied. From a GM standpoint, they where work to get going off the floor . Finding the people to fill in the slots was fairly easy, but finding people who actually meshed with the group was a hard task so cliques form within the guild. There was also the need to gain officers like you mention for prty much everything.

    From a member standpoint i was in cliques within the guild itself. Guilds had to be big to support a raid roster, so you slowly became one of many. When it was raid time, people didnt tend to chat as 40 people chatting in TS didnt exactly bold well as nothing would get across, so for the most part it was officers talking about different things with the occasional chime in. But the way people talked was set up key bindings to talk to exclusively their clique behind the scenes.

    In my mind 40 is to big as its becoming more of a business setup rather then a group who has fun playing together pushing towards a goal. I personally think 20 is the sweet spot.
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  15. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is interesting because this is quotes from two separate W* Devs on a document specifically about raids in W*, and it seems to me that the Devs went out of their way to say something very different than what you are saying.
    So how about you find some W* Dev quotes to back up what you say is the focus of W*.
  16. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    More work than a 10 man, sure...Because like I said, a 10 man barely requires any involvement at all.
    It was also a much different game back then.
    Everything wasn't handed to you on a silver platter.
    You had to work for it, you had to grind things.

    To me saying it was more work for the guild leader is meaningless, because it was more work for everyone back then.
    Furthermore, why is more work bad? That is the whole point of the game.
    They are getting away from the loot pinata care bear direction MMOs have taken over the last few years.

    If you think 40 mans are too big, then the only option is to try to find a guild only doing the sparse 20 man raids, be content with small group content, or play another game.
    Platelet and Dasphunk like this.
  17. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am not going to get into the pointless discussion of what is and isn't end game pve content.
    The devs will always say they have other end game content, or elder game content, other than raiding.
    There is probably some dude still playing Mario brothers FFS.

    The raiding focus is 40 man content.
    That is clear & that is the point I was making. :)
  18. Symphus

    Symphus New Cupcake

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    Speaking from experience I think raiding should have variety in terms of people. There are guilds that want to raid but don't have any experience or the numbers to do 40 man. This gives them the opportunity to try what could lead to a successful 40 man raid guild
  19. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Got agree with Fairy here, as much as it pains me, guilds with solid leaders and a membership that wants to be there complete 40 mans with minimal fuss.

    For me I am not against 40 mans, as I have said, just wanted the smaller raid to be 10 man not 20. I'll keep banging my head against the wall for it. I'll either get a headache or bust the wall down.
  20. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    There was a lot of crazy raging in Vanilla. I'll never forget our Main Tank went off and Disenchanted all of his gear in the middle of Ironforge lol. There wasn't a recovery service so he grinded out Grand Marshall(?) gear in like a week. I still laugh about it. PS that gear was sooo good he could pull agro off a decent T2 tank we picked up.

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