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10 person raids?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by EvilPeppard, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Yes WS offers a solution to those, with their circle system.

    But to be honest (this is gonna sound harsh, atleast i hope it does).

    The best way NOT to get lost in the crowd = to STAND OUT!!! Get well-known in the guild, do something for your guild! Learn everything about the game and share it with others. Train newbies in the guild etc. etc.

    I've done all those things in my previous guilds, to such an extend that everyone knew me and i was called the ''guild whore'' yeh...not the best title to be known with. But that was because i helped in every single thing of the guild.
    Heck they only new Elementrixa (my brother), as ''Yo Brother of Ani'' :D

    It's not hard to stand out, you know why? Because so many people refuse to be active in a guild.

    Build up a name for yourself, and no...not only in the guild, get well known across the server! Oke that's a bit hard to achieve, but once you've succeded and in random groups you come across people saying ''ey remember me from run X we've done together?'' That's when you know you're on the good way :up: Even if you are so sucky with names that you can never say that back to others :p

    So get off your sorry ass, and get working on your reputation!!!! :cool:

    (ofcourse when the game is life, i'm a real guild slacker pre-launch aswell)
    Alverad likes this.
  2. Malachi

    Malachi Cupcake-About-Town

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    The irony here is that the reason 20-mans and 40-mans are harder than 10-mans is that it is much harder to find 20 or 40 competent people over finding 10. It's not necessarily about the fight itself; it's more about the people.
    The Duck, Baamz and Sol like this.
  3. Malachi

    Malachi Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's great and all, but it completely misses the point. What you are describing sounds a lot like a popularity contest, and the people who want to join small guilds care little to nothing about popularity.

    As I said before, I care a lot more about the deepness of my relationships than I care about the quantity of them. It would mean a lot more to me to have 5 really close friends in a game than to have 50 people who recognize me and would say something like "ey remember me from run X we've done together?" Personality difference, that's all that is. But it's extremely presumptuous to assume that the desires of your own personality should apply to everyone.

    I've been in a number of guilds, and I've learned that the members of large guilds DO NOT CARE ABOUT DEEP RELATIONSHIPS. They are in these guilds so that they can get access to the content that require lots of people. There are not circles of friendships of like 10 - 15 people, an idea that sounds all fine and dandy, but the practical application of it is just not the reality in MMOs these days. If you value deep relationships, you need a small guild as it is populated with people who really do care about forming closer friendships than what most gamers are after.
  4. Malachi

    Malachi Cupcake-About-Town

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    And which one of those 3 or 4 circles gets to set the pace of the raid? Who brings the tanks / healers? Whose vent do they share? How little fun will they have being unable to shoot the breeze with each other if they all have to share a collective vent?
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  5. Vexed

    Vexed Cupcake-About-Town

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    Eeeshh. See this is where I have to put my foot down and disagree. I came from a top 20 25m WoW guild before I found our about Wildstar.
    As you probably know, the 10 vs 25 debate is still a hot topic. What I want to outline specifically is that it depends on the fight. Having done both formats on heroic during current content on multiple different alts 25man outweighs 10man in difficulty most of the time in terms of straight up difficulty. I found that 25 man got easier with more gear. 10man tends to stay quite difficult. However based on cutting edge progress 25 man is certianly harder with a few exceptions. 10man certainly has its fair share of difficulty but on the whole it just doesn't compare in my experience.

    Logistically 40 man will be harder and should provide rewards for doing them that are not accessible to others such as gear/titles/mounts/achievements. Same as goes for the 20 mans, everything should be specific to a raid size.

    Difficulty can be there in lower size raid formats but at the end of the day rewards for logistics should be noticable to everyone. A mistakr Blizzard made when then said hey 10=25 because it just doesn't.
  6. Haoli

    Haoli Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's rather vexing to see this pop up again and again, with the same exact arguments, the same explanations, and the same repeating of the developer's decision on this.


    Personally, to me, 10-man content is not raiding. It's group content. Yes, even Karazhan.

    If we get 10-man dungeon/whatever group content, I'm fine with that. But it's not really a raid, to me.


    Raiding to me is about scale, organization, planning, preparation, and then a flawless execution.


    Having led and participated in raids of sizes from 25 to 100+ people, I'd say scale is the defining trait of a raid group.

    Organizing, planning, and preparation are all things that get more difficult the greater number of people you have, and that's part of the inherent difficulty and reward of raiding.

    Execution is the part that an individual can only do for themselves, and must rely on others to do their part as well. Tuned properly, the difficulty of this is equal no matter the size of your raid group.




    Really, though, my TL;DR on this is that claiming a 10-man group is a raid is like claiming ten guys on a football field with instruments is a marching band. It's not, and it feels silly to me to claim so.
    Genev, Calsic, Kataryna and 2 others like this.
  7. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    No it's not for popularity, if you just play the game with an open and kind attitude and help people if they need help, then that just comes across naturally and i consider that a bonus (hence the reason i never knew them back).

    But if you keep that same mind-set in a guild, then you can cultivate the best relations inside that guild. Even to that extend when you talk to each other with things like ''how did the first day of school for your kid went?'' and things like ''what do you think about your goverment?'' (<-- this asking to people in Iran....yeh i know)

    And getting those guildies to act like: ''Oh hey...i'm going on a holiday to Germany, do you mind if i take a train to The Netherlands?'' other person ''Oh no i can even come and meet you halfway if it's too far, would be nice to have a coup of coffee together'' etc.

    Things like this happend in my previous guild which had 30+ members (up to max of 35).

    People knew eachother, cared for eachother, and met eachother outside of the game aswell.

    So i don't know what kind of a relationship you want to have with them?
    I don't know what you call a big guild or a small guild? (i consider having 35 members isn't really small)

    But i just say:
    Play with a friendly, open mind and help eachother. This way you can make the best friendships that last longer then just a games lifespan.

    Doing something for that guild, would be almost ''normal'' since it's no longer a guild, but it more get's to be some sort of ''family''. Hence why i said, you have to do something for the guild. If you start to make the first move others will join, you have the power to set an example and begin friendships.


    So that was kinda the point i wanted to make :D Hope you understand it better now.
    Kataryna likes this.
  8. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    you do it the same way that you do a big guild or an alliance - each circle has their rep(s) as officers in the main guild/group and you do sign ups for raid slots. you're still working for the greater good of the "Guild" you're just split into your "Circles" for your own purposes outside of raid nights. you just have your own clique in their own separate chat and if you feel like it you can get your own small free vent server for your little circle.

    and who knows, you MIGHT decide that you actually LIKE the people that you're in a guild with and they'll join your Circle as well, and your Circle might grow up to where you actually have 20 people and start running 20man raids on other nights! And THEN you might pick up some of those new friend's friends who you happen to also like because you've gotten to know them through running dungeons with the new friends and their friends! And THEN your Circle might grow up some more to where you can field 40 people and then you can split off of the "Raiding Guild" and form your very own "Raiding Guild".

    That last paragraph is where I see the beauty of the Circle coming out. You find like minded people, add them to your circle - then add more, and more and more until eventually you can actually field the 20-40 people you need for a Raid, then decide you want to morph into a guild. And if you so choose after forming that big guild you can still take those original 10-15 people and make a new circle so that you can keep track of just them again.
    Livnthedream and Extatica like this.
  9. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    You must have been in some bad guilds then, or just in guilds unsuitable for you. In the last 25 man guild I was in, I had tons of fun and tons of friends and awesome time. Hell I even found love in to my life from 25 man guild :p

    Your debate is like; I have never driven a good car, therefore good cars do not exist.
    Extatica and Kataryna like this.
  10. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    And once you've driven a good car, trust me it's hard to say goodbye to it (leaving the game, while others stayed).
  11. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    I feel very very very sorry that you feel that way. I'm proof that you CAN form deep relationships with people in very large guilds.

    I was Warlock Class Officer during Vanilla WoW raiding MC and BWL. I knew 60-70% of everyone in that guild. And we were lots larger than 40-45 people needed to raid, because we started out as a 'family' guild and then grew up to be raiding guild so we had probably 100 people. to KNOW 60-70 of those people is a pretty large amount of people. I knew the ages of their kids, I knew where half of them lived and had standing invites of "Hey if you're ever in the area, lemme know!", I knew who was in school for what. Two of them came to my wedding 2 years after I'd left the guild because we kept in touch (from Connecticut and CANADA). I kept in touch with 5 of them when they got Deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, making sure to relay info when they needed me to. Cried my heart out when one of them didn't make it back. Cried again when our guild leader made it back after a very close call - I was the second call he made. I still have his phone number - 5 years later. and still call him every once in a while. My warlocks called me their "Mama 'Lock" - because I bossed them around like a mother would, lol!

    Were there people I didn't get along with? Sure, it's impossible to get along with people 100% of the time, but I'll be darned if I didn't try to get along. Most of the smaller guilds I've been in have actually been worse than that WoW guild. There were more chances to butt heads because you didn't have as many people between you and the one person you didn't like.
    Aimee, Genev and Vexed like this.
  12. Sol

    Sol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Been following this thread for a bit and this guy couldn't have said it more perfectly. You can argue your point until the end of eternity; some people will still hear what they want to. I don't know why people get all upset about content not being exclusive - I do it for the fun/ challenge, the rewards simply let me proceed to the next tier. But that is me. Other people seem to be quite jealous of their status/loot and need it to feel good about their gaming experience.

    This difference is the always going to cause friction and someone is always going to be unhappy. Best off just having your say once and leaving it as you will just endlessly justify yourself to someone that isn't remotely interested in your gameplay, let alone agreeing with you.
  13. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    People say this all the time. But not many seem to have connected the dots and realized that it only got super hard to find those competent people as the larger, harder raids disappeared ...
  14. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is part of the reason why I stopped arguing for 20 mans to be on an equal footing as 40 mans. If it's apparently anything more than a half-assed stepping stone to the "Master League Raid Size" then it takes away from it and therefore diminishes it's importance. I'm convinced that 20 mans can and should be a viable, difficult raiding size, and that this community is the worst place to try to push for it.
  15. Ayora

    Ayora Cupcake-About-Town

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    <Mod Fab> I'm enjoying the discussions and ideas that are coming through on here guys, but can we tone it down a notch please? This is an interesting topic, lets keep it calm. </Mod Fab>
  16. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    10mens are cosy, for sure...they can be hard, no doubt - but no matter how you look at things, they do not feel EPIC. There are games out there that offer smaller scale grouping. There aren't such, that offer organized raiding for a proper crowd. It's now a niche, that WS took on filling. It's their choice, and our joy. Yes, it creates a barrier for smaller guilds coming out of other games. But it's just an obstacle, not a bloody mountain. 10 men guilds easily have a roster of 15 raiders, so you expand a little to do 20 mens. And if you are reluctunt to go big, you join forces with another guild in your position, to continue progression further, if you care. It's not obligatory. If you don't like it, you don't have to pursue it :) If there is a will, there is a way. Always.
  17. Vulgork

    Vulgork Cupcake

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    I think BC had it quite right. I don't think making 10-man, 20-man and 40-man versions of every raid is the way to go since you want to build your raid and it's encounters around the size of the group.

    But I for my part had a great time running Karazhan with my friends. It also provides a reasonable stepping stone to 20-mans since you can group together with another 10-man if you ever want to do 20-man.
    I just found it sad that there was no natural follow-up once done with Karazhan other than making a larger group.

    I didn't mind Karazhan having worse loot in comparison to Raids designed for more people. I think the logistics of getting so much more people together should be rewarded, or people won't have an incentive. Difficulty should also be a factor though.
  18. Neurotic Cucpake

    Neurotic Cucpake Cupcake-About-Town

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    Smaller guilds are smaller for a reason. If they didn't mind hanging out with a cacophony of random strangers, they'd likely join a larger guild and do content with larger groups. Not everyone (and I dare say that it's the majority of players) like that environment, especially given the archetypical reputation of most large raiding guilds.
  19. Neurotic Cucpake

    Neurotic Cucpake Cupcake-About-Town

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    In WoW, Karazhan is often regarded as the single most fun and epic raid in the game.

    What was the size of that raid again?
  20. Mierelle

    Mierelle Cupcake-About-Town

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    This statement might be true with the assumption that a raid encounter is 10/20/40 people smacking 1 boss who puts random hazards on the ground. But a raid encounter can and should be so much more than that, encounters that really requires a larger group of people to work together and pull their weight and not just increased damaged/HP as this subject have been handled by wow, swtor and other games.

    I agree that Karazhan is regarded as one of the mosy fun instances due to it's accessability and well balanced fights, would have to disagree that it's regarded as the single most epic raid in WoW.
    Alverad likes this.

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