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40 mans: Not all they're cracked up to be...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Destian, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Asking for that kind of data is asking for an impossible solution.

    Lets turn it around and apply the same rule to you. Please supply all your datamined information that supports your viewpoint.

    I await your response.
  2. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    What facts are we suppose to be supplying?
  3. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    MOST CERTAINLY! =D

    despite the fact that within it's context it was asking for something simple from one post, which had progressively not shown any kind of data at all. let's continue down this path.

    All I require of you is to point each point you want data from, as I'm not sure what exactly your talking about without it. thank you in advance! ;D
  4. Stich

    Stich Cupcake

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    thats only true for the pve care bears, that whine and complain that they cant get past a mechanic ect.

    first thing i do at level cap is hit the "que for pvp" button and re learn my situation awareness ect
    Yazra likes this.
  5. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    I honestly hope the reward system for gear works like rift. theres some things that drop from raids alone, and set pieces you get from token gain. I know some ppl dislike it but it works like dkp in a sense, you only gear up as fast as you are willing. It takes time and osmetimes i know some ppl get really lucky with drops but then there are others where u will go weeks if not months without getting something to drop. I like the token way, its fair for everyone :) and then you dont have to fight and be at eachothers throats for set pieces... just weapons rings, trinkets, and neck pieces :) lol
  6. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    What? How is it "fair for everyone" when it replaces the "hitting the jackpot" feeling of dropped gear with a "now I don't have to grind this place as long" feeling? Token systems tend to make the content feel like a job instead of an experience.
    Gunghoe likes this.
  7. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Lol how lazy are you. Sound like a Gen Y do everything for me even think....
  8. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    So instead of wanting an actual answer you merely want to insult instead? Is that really the way to extend the conversation?
  9. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Your logic fails even the most simple test. You seem like yet another person that wont directly answer the question posed. Your post above almost borders upon gibberish. I told you in the post the data i wanted. Can you read.

    You state that the information given must be wrong as it doesn't contain statistical proof therefore you must be right. Okay now apply the same logic to your viewpoint which you can not not possibly supply.

    Therefore your entire involvement in the discussion is just a bunch of meaningless dribble.

    Unless YOU can supply the data to disprove the point. Here is your post and position as well as Destian's.

    Destian said:
    The evidence was watching players leave as other guilds lured them away with the promise of better progression.​


    Gamerz said:
    Asking for that kind of data is asking for an impossible solution.​

    Lets turn it around and apply the same rule to you. Please supply all your datamined information that supports your viewpoint.​

    I await your response.​
    Now back it up buddy with stats etc or let me use your own words

    The fact is that everything you have said is "your opinion" and nothing more. Just because it is "your opinion" does not mean it is any more or any less relevant than anyone else.

    So again either you back your argument/point/position with facts or admit the reality that you are not special like you mummy told you before she tucked you in at night
    teh_ninjaneer likes this.
  10. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Okay maybe you don't know how to go back and read multiple posts. Maybe you are lazy. I'm in a good mood so I'm going with your clueless and its not your fault. Look directly above ye shall find the answer.

    Next time do it yourself.
  11. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    The data asked for (that you are attempting to make a big deal out of) is where it actually made a significant difference, not if it was happening at all. Destian continues to claim that it "ruins the game" and is a "significant problem" and then claims that it only really happens with 40 mans, and is therefor blaming them as the problem. All of which is making the assumption that correlation is causation which is absurd.

    The vast majority of this thread is sheer stupidity. Getting the people together is take part in the content is part of the content. If that is something he does not want to take part in, then he doesn't need to do such content. There is nothing forcing him to do it. Even the complaints of "better gear" is bull as you will be able to get "better gear" through high ranked pvp too. Should that be nerfed also? How about elder game soloing? Based on what has been stated by Carbine both will give you slightly better gear than the 20 mans that he claims are the ideal spot. By his logic then he is forced to do either of those also, should they too be gotten rid of?

    His entire argument falls down to "I want the best gear, but I don't want to do 40 mans to get it" with a bunch of anecdotal "evidence" and moronic arguments (often consisting of him declaring himself right even in the face of counter reasoning) in order for him to try an get his way. No matter the raid size, there will be "poaching". It is a player problem, not a guild one. Attempting to argue it as a negative is like saying Carbine should be giving us the raid strats every week cause figuring it out for ourselves is too hard. Whether you prefer the "content should be hard, not the social construct" or not, the fact is Carbine is going out of their way to bring the social construct back and make it a forefront of the game. You can see it in the numerous different way mechanics are set up. From how they have designed paths/questing to how they have split up rewards amongst raiders/soloers/pvpers. It is something that they have been espousing since spring, it shouldn't be a surprise.
    nra likes this.
  12. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Whoa wall of text man. Slow down.

    I didn't ask for the data my friend Wave asked for it.

    You obviously have no data either even though you asked what data was requested.

    The wall of text doesn't change the fact that no data is able to be produced.
  13. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Are you trolling or just ignorant? The entire point of "asking for data" to begin with was an attempt to show Destian that his argument is absurd. Attempting to continue to push that argument (which is false anyway, if proof is indeed needed to be provided the onus is on they who first made the claim, ie Destian) falls into either rabble rousing or forum pvp. Both of which are mildly retarded. This isn't Nerdfight.
    WavE likes this.
  14. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    One eyed much. Firstly

    I didn't know you and Wave were an item as I addressed the question to Wave.

    Secondly and I hate to do this but I will.

    Yourself and Wave disagree with Destian right? Fairly obvious. So you go for the win with

    Now slowly for you. Just because he can not show the empirical data does not mean that you are right by default and therefore
    If you follow that broken logic then I will again turn it around and state to you show me the data that backs up your point that his position is absurd.

    You state he is wrong. You believe his point is false as shown below

    Now answer the question. Don't wall of meaningless text.

    Can you provide the data or not.
  15. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Yes. His entire position is based on opinion. The end. As such calling himself "right" when his opinion is just as useless as every other opinion presented makes his argument moot.

    Also, as soon as he declared his argument the only "right one" he did lose. He violated his own argument by not showing proof that his argument was the correct one. That is how rational debate works. As soon as you declare your argument "fact" but cannot provide evidence your argument is false. For example, I can argue that the sky is purple. You look outside and say, "Nuh uh, the sky is blue!". The onus is on me to prove that the sky is purple as I stated it as fact.

    Attempting to argue your preference as a standard, especially when its a change to a current system, requires a causation of to show it. None of his arguments thus far have that. At all.
    WavE likes this.
  16. Booshy

    Booshy New Cupcake

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    The OP made a well thought out post with valid concerns and your response is to just ignore it and call him a troll? The only thing that does is lend evidence to your own fanboism, and reading further comments from you in this thread it's pretty clear that's what you are - fanboy and troll.
  17. Booshy

    Booshy New Cupcake

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    OP there are a lot of fanbois in here - don't even bother trying to make them see reason or sense it isn't going to happen, their heads are in the sand to your logic or anything that is not praise for the game so there is no point trying to pull them out. Seriously some of the statements and arguments in this thread are laughable and I wish some of you could see how incredibly dumb you look from an objective non biased onlooker.
  18. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    So first of all, your terribly rude and I hope a mod reads your posts and tells you to calm down.

    Second, "You state that the information given must be wrong as it doesn't contain statistical proof therefore you must be right." -Gamerz, for this i merely wanted some kind of proof as to what he was saying, as many people had asked for it and his recent posts had seemed more and more outlandish. Also as a note this would not prove me right regardless of what he said, we merely wanted him to put something anything out there that wouldn't make it just another hot headed opinion.

    Third, "Unless YOU can supply the data to disprove the point" - Gamerz, This is incorrect. Burden of proof is laid upon the presenter of an argument, not the critic.

    Finally, my viewpoint is this: 40 man raiding was fun, not just from a nostalgia viewpoint, but also for it's epic size, challenging if archaic mechanics, and also for the prestige it gave guilds who accomplished it.

    I have been mainly on 4 different servers. Smolderthorn, Maelstrom, Ravenholdt, and Tichondrius. I have Raided every raid during it's time in WoW, played every era of PvP from dueling, to Grand marshals to arena to rated bgs, and experieinced several classes to what I would consider a level of mastery.

    On each server the most prestigious, skilled, rewarded, and overall impressive guilds were the ones who succeeded at both raiding and PvP consistently, and might I add the biggest impression was left on me from my first small server in vanilla WoW, because the content was so much more difficult for guilds to complete.

    If you want the nitpicky details of who was the best, why, what gear they had, when they got it, who poached who etc, I suggest you get it yourself, because I'm fully confident that while poaching happens, it was never a problem big enough to warrant any attention on any of my servers. (as a disclaimer, that is only across 4 servers, so it's not an all encompassing experience, but it is big enough for me to warrant my feelings toward the matter)

    TLDR: (since you seem to have trouble reading), stop trolling, and let people with some understanding o f whats going on talk please. Your just making the thread worse, not better. And better is ultimately is what I think we are all trying to achieve here.
  19. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    Your statement honestly is very biased itself is it not? Towards those you feel are in the sand that is. Even in the darkest of their arguments, there are fine points to be made. The same can be said about the OP. By discounting everything though you have in fact put YOUR head in the sand. =/
    Ianpact likes this.
  20. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    All I hear is blah blah blah blah and again the failure to answer the question

    Do you have the data to back your claims up or not. You don't so you continue to voice your opinion which is no different or more valid than his opinion.

    What you have stated there is a difference of perspective. If you were to pose the same question to a color blind person then their "perspective" will be different to yours.

    What Destian has stated is his perspective what you have stated is your perspective.

    You say his agreement is only valid if he shows facts and specific data but your agreement is fact because its yours.

    Kinda silly really. Surely you've gotten the point by now.

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