1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

40 mans: Not all they're cracked up to be...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Destian, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Interesting. Look how you try and squirm out of answering. I note you have attacked other people in this forum.

    Gee imagine if scientific discussion consisted of Ner Ner your wrong. If you ask for facts and data from your opponent then you must be prepared to supply yours. I know you understand this but you refuse to accept your "viewpoint" is no more valid than his.

    Again as you state your viewpoint which could be completely different to his.

    Okay this is interesting. As you must feel you are omnipresent. You feel that you can state you knew all the comings and goings across 4 WOW servers on both factions and the exact reasons why they stayed or left the game, their raid, or whatever.

    If this is true as you would have us believe them you must be able to provide the data. Destian never stated that he knew all the comings and goings of all the players across 4 WOW servers.

    Big call man. Time to back it up. Please enlighten us mere mortals as to how you knew all this information

    I use your own words again

    teh_ninjaneer likes this.
  2. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    First of all we're talking about "mental" perspectives, not "visual" ones. So that's not really a good metaphor. It might be better to compare kants views to kierkegaards, rather then a physical disability to an idea.

    Also your taking our asking for proof out of context fairly heavily here. We're not asking for every bit of data, evidence, or proof in the world for every little thing he says. We're asking for it specifically, for this point of view which he has stated numerous times but without any such base for us to believe him. (the us being, those who disagree with his points about poaching being relevant, and/or 40 man raiding not being a viable or well designed option for an mmo which isn't out yet)

    People ask for such proof when a statement becomes outlandish seeming, or tired through repetition of rhetoric. It's just an attempt by honestly both sides to finalize and possibly end the argument on decisive or amiable terms.
  3. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    [quote="Gamerz, post: 184324, member: 12636

    Okay this is interesting. As you must feel you are omnipresent. You feel that you can state you knew all the comings and goings across 4 WOW servers on both factions and the exact reasons why they stayed or left the game, their raid, or whatever.

    If this is true as you would have us believe them you must be able to provide the data. Destian never stated that he knew all the comings and goings of all the players across 4 WOW servers.

    Big call man. Time to back it up. Please enlighten us mere mortals as to how you knew all this information[/quote]

    Well I certainly can't say i know everything about everything on those 4 servers during my time. But I'm totally one of those guys who pays attention when I do play ^^y

    I like to talk to other guilds, keep close to GMs and officers of various high and low level guilds that I meet, scroll through the lists of top players and top geared guilds in my free time through various sites (both those provided by blizzard, and fan based or guildmade sites), and all in try to get a feeling of where I am in all of it as well.

    That's how.

    If that doesn't satisfy you, well I'm not really sure what will.

    Also I would like to note I have not "attacked" anyone. I do make passionate posts, but that's because I feel strongly about my views and feel they are supported through my personal knowledge and experience on the matters I like to talk about.

    I would appreciate if you would stop attacking me and other people on this forum though, as it is definitely not good conduct.
  4. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Again all I hear you say is he must provide proof of his opinion but you don't have to to prove yours.

    How am I taking that out of context.

    Seriously this is black and white.

    Do you have the data or not or is your position in this thread your perspective/opinion.

    Having a different opinion to you is not attacking you.
  5. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except I did post data. He attempted to state his opinion as fact when it most certainly isn't. If he had said something actually subjective, sure, but he has argued for nearly 14 pages now that 20 mans are de facto superior to 40 mans. Which is clearly not the case. They both have their place.

    He broke out of the realm of perspective as soon as he declared his position the only correct position.

    No, because I haven't declared my opinion to be fact anywhere in the thread. Outside of generally accepted societal rules, such as the general rules of debate, but if you want to split hairs that finely you really are just being retarded rather than trying to stick to topic. Specifically his adamant claim that 40 mans has more poaching than either 10 or 20/25. Whats really funny is he has already back peddled on that one twice in the thread.The vast majority of what he is deeming a "negative" is actually a trade off. Such as the arguments of Corporation vs Guild (implying they do not share a common ancestor!) and the rather tired Social skills vs Encounter skills. He has yet to offer a single argument that has not already been acknowledged by Carbine.
  6. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
  7. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'm standing tall. I've stated my views, and why I believe them to be right. Can you say the same?
  8. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I stated quite clearly where I got my hard data. It's not hard to find, or keep track of such things in a well established MMO, much less WoW. I gain a "vibe" as you call it from that hard data, just as I'm sure the OP and everyone else does.

    The main difference is I have now stated where I got my data, and what it was.
  9. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I have stated my points here fairly and plainly. I still don't understand why your position is right but you don't have to provide data but he does to prove his viewpoint.

    You now say you have facts. As you said below.

    Destian has stated his information is from firsthand interaction and you say yours was from first hand information. Same same to me.

    So facts....

    So your other point is that we shouldn't just believe him because there is no "base" for you to do so. But we should believe you more than he.

    You see this is my point to you. You say you are well meaning etc then act it.

    He did state it the very first post

    Same as you so why is his not to be believed and yours is again.
    teh_ninjaneer likes this.
  10. Ianpact

    Ianpact Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA, USA
  11. lacrimstein

    lacrimstein Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    13
    This whole argument that's been going on for the past 2 pages about who does/doesn't have to supply data to back up their views is absolutely retarded.

    With that said: WildStar will have 40 -man raids. Most people on this forum and other sources, such as r/wildstar, seem excited for it. Yes, there is probably statistical bias, since only the hardcore spend hours discussing an upcoming game, but that doesn't change anything - WildStar will have 40-man raids. Deal with it. You don't have to do it. Ignore it's existence. If you can't stand the fact that there exists some content in WildStar that you're not interested in, if you can't stand the fact that someone out there might have better gear than you because they've done content that you for some reason or another don't want to do, then maybe this game isn't for you.
    WavE, Yazra, Ianpact and 1 other person like this.
  12. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    8
    a job? i guess if its so sceuwed it takes months to get one piece ya. But for those who get unlucky? its gonna Really suck and i feel such a much bigger drive to raid when i know I'm a few days away from getting a piece of gear I want Vs the lottery of RNG and greedy GMs with broken loot systems.

    Of course anyone who likes to try would just say find a new guild. a lot of guilds work the same and if im in a better progressed guild.. honestly i think I'd rather be raiding higher end content and not get what i want until everyone else has it, than to progress with a new guild on the same <REDACTED> again only to have them say " well since your new your gonna have to pass on this " Its happened.

    ----
    But seriously i do understand what ur talking about, those nights everything i wanted dropped, i got it. and then didnt wanna log on for a few days cuz i felt like i had already got what i wanted :p lol
  13. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    8

    Omg i totally do this lol. If i respec at max level i go do pvp for a bit, then do dungeons and THEN once i think im comfortable and not bad ill do raiding with it.
  14. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    287
    Trophy Points:
    63
    What about 40 Women raids? Are they OK?
    Ianpact likes this.
  15. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Canada
    I swore after vanilla wow that I would never do 40 man raiding again and I plan to stick to that. 20 man maybe, but nothing bigger. Lots of reasons, most have been mentioned in this thread.

    That said I believe that not all content in the game is designed for my enjoyment as long as I am not forced to do it I do not care that it is in the game for those that do enjoy it.

    So my question is, are you forced to do 40 man raids in order to get the best gear? Are there different paths to the same level of gear?
  16. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    They are just as good, but only give 80% of the tokens that 40man raids do.
    Livnthedream and Eliat_kuni like this.
  17. Wendo

    Wendo Cupcake

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8

    As for now the best raiding gear drops from 40 man raids. This is not the best pve or pvp gear simply the best raiding gear. You will not need 40man gear to complete 20man raids so that is not an issue either. Its all good.
  18. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Canada
    Is there a writeup somewhere on how gear works, pvp vs raiding vs non raiding pve vs 40 man vs 20 man?

    Thanks
  19. Wendo

    Wendo Cupcake

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
  20. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    See, this is the difference between playing for loot, and seeing loot as the stepping stone to what you want to do in game. With a token system it is super easy to calculate exactly how many times you need to run a dungeon to get everything from it. "I need 103 tokens, ok, that is only 53 trips through the place, better get grinding!". The true secret sauce of an mmo is you do not need a full set of bis kit to complete the next tier of what ever it is you are trying to accomplish. Is it nice because it makes it easier, sure, but walking into the first raid tier with a green or two is rarely a recipe for disaster if you have a clue about you. There is an extremely blurry line between "player skill" and gear, simply because encounters are not tightly tuned, and they really cannot be if the devs want them to be actually completeable, especially with a varied force of multiple people.

Share This Page