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40 mans: Not all they're cracked up to be...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Destian, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    i don't calculate im not that involved. lol I just think its a fair system so you are not at eachothers throats over the chest token that dropped for the first time in a month for your class/calling/ whatever thats all.

    And no i don't mind how wow is either. i mean if you are with a good group your gonna get what you need, on the flip side if you are with a bad group you will still progress individually and get gear, even if they are moderately fail lol or just not progressing at the pace you would like them too.

    I'm just saying there's both good and bad in both. you can get horribly unlucky for a very long time with the wow system or be very lucky... and in Rift sometimes it is a drag knowing that no matter how good your guild is, because you took a month off you are way behind and its gonna suck getting there because now u have to do x y and z raid for a month to just get in to the same content the rest of the guild is on ( which is what happened to me )
  2. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    btw i watched your spider video in your signature, Lol nice i liked it. i esp laughed at the spider getting all dizzy and running quickly back to the middle.
  3. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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  4. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm super curious as to what recovery actually does ^^ does it only work for focus based classes? Can my tank get higher dps with it?! Oh the possibilities ^^p
  5. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Then wouldn't the "most fair" system be one where everyone gets their own loot and there is no competition at all?

    The problem with the "unlucky" argument is it just does not happen. The math is not there to support it. You can perceive it that way if you wish, much the same way many people perceive Astrology to be beneficial to their lives, but the reality does not match up.
  6. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    you know I've always found loot systems rather fascinating, as they promise a reward, but only to a few out of many to obtain it. These systems seem designed to promote discord and competition.

    If they weren't worth fighting for though, would it not be as fun?
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  7. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    I think its unfair to say there is no unlucky ppl. pre bc wiht 40 ppl u would go months with so much as 1 or 2 upgrades. we would have progressed far faster if it was token based. everyone would be on the same playing field ( granted they showed up for the raids )
  8. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    besides idk where u get the idea that loot tables are the same as astrology.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=16863/gauntlets-of-might
    This piece of gear ( gauntlets of might ) from the 40 man raid MOLTEN CORE has a 36% drop rate. dropping off of Lucifron the first boss in the raid. This one piece of gear was wanted by 8 people. Do you know how many weeks that is to get all 8 ppl that one piece of gear? given that it would drop every time?

    ya sure they might get other loot from other bosses but thats not a given, ive done entire raids on many occasions where nothing dropped for me that was of any value.

    ----

    there is your "math "
  9. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    So is it a "not getting loot fast enough" issue or "not getting the loot I want" issue? They can be similar, but are not the same. The vast majority of those complaining about "luck" grossly exaggerate. Sure, there are some unlucky people who actually ran the dungeon 100 times and didn't get a drop, but most of them had completion rates of 10-15 claiming that same number. Watching the complaints about not getting trinkets in Wotlk for example were hilarious.

    You had 8 tanks in your 40 man? Really? Even if that is not the case you make it clear that for you it is a quantity issue. You feel that you should be getting a piece of "useful" loot every single week. Which again, is not surprising since you clearly raid for gear instead of what you can do with it. Gear is icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

    Even then, token (by token I assumed you meant "badge" since you were referring to 5 mans to start with) are not a "fair" system for the reasons I have outlined. There are better ways of distributing loot, especially when the loot isn't the point, and shouldn't be! If loot is the primary reason you are there then that raid system has failed.

    The "fairest" compromise in terms of "token" systems is having pieces drop that can be turned in by a prospective class for a corresponding piece of gear. Using your Glove example it would be "Heavy Gloves" making them useful for 2 classes and realistically 4 specs. I say fairer because it drastically reduces loot table bloat, and still keeps some nice rng aspects. Sure there can be some "unluckyness" in such a system, but that is half of what keeps it fun and interesting. Rng is a great boon when used correctly.
  10. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Do you know how many weeks it was from release to the next raid? Nov 2004 to July 2005. Thats approx 8 months, give or take, so 32 weeks or so which is plenty of time, not to mention the fact that most guilds aren't going to be clearing the next raid as soon as its released, so if your raid is really hurting that bad for gear, then the GM should be making the call to clear whichever bosses need doing the first raid night, then going on from there. ( technically by that time period it should only be taking you 1/2 of 1 night to clear the entire instance ).

    Competition yes, .....discord? only between people who are greedy and jealous, which is in itself disruptive to a guilds focus on progression.
  11. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    I disagree that its designed to promote it. Its a byproduct of such a system, not the goal. Humans are naturally aware of social standing and where we are on the totem pole, so when we see someone else get something, especially if its something we desire we get jealous. For something to matter, for it to be special, it needs at least a little exclusivity. If everyone has super powers then are they really super?
  12. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    Cake is clearly better. You should take the rose tented glasses off. I mean, my cake that is baking has 3 layers that could be considered a Pie, but it has 5 layers of molten lava cake. The quantity is clearly better. I mean look at the dynamics of the future of this cake and compare it to your outdated notion of Pie. Even then, the only things Pie is evolving into is a tart. Who wants a tart for a snack. Boy golly. that stuff could be hard to pull of correctly the last Pie i had was burnt. Therefore all pie must be equally as bad as the chefs first experience. Now all he makes is some apple pie, that every one is tired of. It's easy to make, has very little reason to stay subbed. Some say the Pie is killing it's self. I am overly hyped for this cake, having never had any pie from this now old chef. But what i hear of this old chef all he cares about is pleasing people, making sure everything is easy to buy in a timely manner.
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  13. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Yep I have to agree.

    40 man raids as stated time and time again by its fans are for the 1%.

    Smart move making the best gear and content unobtainable for the other 99% of players. Players who come into a game to escape their lives in which they aren't the 1%. Then you tell those 99% of players you suck in this game as well.

    Its why in single player games you are the one saving the world/becoming the king/saving the princess. Its a successful formula.

    Yet this brand new MMO still hasn't figured that out.

    It doesn't matter if you like 40 mans or you don't its a huge marketing/gameplay mistake.
  14. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Which is why consumerism is based on "keeping up with the Joneses" right?
  15. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    In pretty much every mmo 99% of players arnt good enough to get the best gear.
  16. CptElendi

    CptElendi Cupcake-About-Town

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    except in WoW, they give it for free.
  17. lacrimstein

    lacrimstein Cupcake

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    Ah, so you're looking for handouts! In that case, you should go play GW2. I've heard this kind of rhetoric from GW2 fanboys many times, so you'll fit right in!

    A lot of people say that we're now in the "dark age" of MMO's, and I agree. However, I don't think this is caused by LFG, QuestHelper or other features commonly blamed, but because somewhere along the line, players got the impression that they're absolutely entitled to receive best items without any effort. Instead of looking at a fully-geared player in awe with the thoughts "I want to be like that some day!", they throw a fit and yell "Devs, why don't I have that by now?" - "I have to do what?" - "No, I don't want to!" - "I don't care, give me my armor!".

    Except when everyone is special, no one really is. Again, this sounds like you want a "carebear" MMO that gives you the illusion of being a special snowflake. MMOs are an online world. Everyone not being special is part of the game. You become special by being a good player - and fortunately, the definition of "good player" is loose. You can be a great tank or healer. You can be the guild leader or officer of a well-known guild. You can be a great raid strategist. You can be a great auction house player. If you want to be special with no effort, there are MMOs like that. But I hope WildStar won't be part of that club.
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  18. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    [quote="lacrimstein, post: 184558, member:] snip[/quote]

    I think what you and others miss is that the other 99% pay exactly the same amount you do. They are not there to just subsidise your experience of the game.

    Step outside of the self centre of your point. That player doesnt look at you and have anything positive added to their experience. You must be kidding if you think so. Dont respond as a 1% who saw someones elses gear and got motivated to get their own. Thats not the point at all.

    What happened in vanilla wow was very few experienced the 40 man raids thus very few got the gear or saw the content.

    You know WOW realised they need to do something different.

    Wildstar has to compete with lots of MMO's and cant afford for its majority playerbase to hit the wall and decide i'm off to save the world somewhere else.

    That will be bad for you because you'll have no one to flash your epeen to.
  19. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Thats RL man. The rat race. Unlike a game which you play to have fun.
  20. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Implying significant numbers of people do not enjoy it.

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