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A VERY Comprehensive Review for WildStar from a 1%er [WARNING! This is Long!]

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Crucifer, May 9, 2013.

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  1. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    BTW I want to thank and appreciate everyone whose read this so far. This took me a bit of time to write up and I am glad you all are taking the time to read and reply. Thank you!
  2. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's not the word that bugs him, it how you were using it. You originally phrased a twink as broad as being any leveling PvPer.

    Twinking is when someone goes waaaay out of their way to find that one or two pieces of gear that is too powerful for it's level. A WoW example: my buddy had a twink rogue. It was level 19.5 and he somehow found a knife with stats probably double of normal level 19 gear. He then used it to play in the 10-19 PvP instances for weeks. The second he levels to 20 he'd be pushed to the lvl 20-29 PvP instance, thus making his gear worthless in comparison. Having lvl 22 gear in a lvl 19 zone is op, but worthless in the lvl 29 area.

    Leveling a PvP toon doesn't make it a twink. Using PvP gear doesn't make it a twink. Farming a rare drop or buying a rare item that drops in a dungeon higher level you can go (but for some reason has low level equip requirement) makes a twink. It's completely impractical long term, but fun to do because the end result is that your character has a distinct advantage that isn't expected or designed for.
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  3. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I know what twinking is. I was using it as a means to say that leveling systems like 10-19 brackets should not exist as twinking will spawn from it. It's part of the reality of that system. Same with any bracketed system. Then I talked about SWTOR style system which has it's massive flaws as well and is really un-fun for new players. Possibly worse than twinking but I doubt it.
  4. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    they have scaling in so for each bracket you scale to the relative numbers of the max level of that bracket. so, no for twinking.
  5. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Doesn't change that a level 19 person is going to have more skills/talents than a level 10 person. This gets drastically more favored later levels. Scaling feels unearned as well. I had this same complaint in SWTOR...what good is PvP gear during leveling if it has no effect on the scaling?

    It's easier just to not have battlegrounds till the elder game. The cap is only level 50...in today's world that is nothing. Most people will be there in less than a month, even casuals. Having PvP be natural and world based to that point just creates great society and server community across the factions. Imagine leveling and running into the same guy each zone and having new epic duels / fights as you level. Then by the elder game you are arch-rivals. This is again the lost concept of community in MMOs.
  6. tonic

    tonic New Cupcake

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    I don't think daily quests are inherently flawed; they worked quite well in TBC, if you recall.

    I think the problem with MOPs daily quest design is that the world is static, easy, and boring = and that's because of flying mounts and gear inflation. They become a chore instead of an adventure.
  7. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

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    For me at least, Twink had a more sexual definition up until it started getting heavily used in gaming.

    Yea but, according to the Camelot Unchained creator, PvE is for casuals ;)

    At max level, the gap between new players and old players should be the gear, while it should be flipped for leveling PvP (your level, and in turn, your skills and talents be the gap, not gear). Regardless, I know many people who were able to kick ass as a level 20 in Star Wars: The Old Republic, even when they went up against level 40+ players.
  8. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is largely do to the fact that Isle's of Quel'Danas was a battlefield not just a daily hub. I know that better than anyone...cause I setup shop/camp on that Isle for a large part of TBC and never left. My rogue stopped PvEing to live on the Isle's, made his own guild, and laid havoc on the Alliance.

    http://i.imgur.com/HZRqH73.jpg

    But that doesn't disway the fact that it was still a daily grind the only difference was it involved world PvP to get the dailies done. The area wasn't relatively big so it wasn't a hardship to get it done quickly even with PvP. It was widely considered one of the best zones in WoW because it was a perfect mesh for PvPers and PvEers.

    This is what I am talking about though...zones like this DURING leveling is what is needed. Not so much for dailies. But small confined run-in zones where you are forced to interact and be at war with the opposing faction IS FUN. Not for just PvPers but everyone. It gives the game excitement and adventure.

    The reason dailies suck in MoP is because there is no PvP AT ALL in the zones where dailies are. It's ALL grind...its stale boring and just not worth doing. I want awesome dynamic content to replace dailies. Let a weekly event give me rep rewards. Or let me explore to new zones / find new monsters that reward me rep. Or one of my personal favorites "WANTED" quests where I have to track a mobile unit through different zones and kill it. These style quests can give rep rewards and housing random loot drops. (5 man elite mobs so I can do them with my friends / or have them scale up if I am in a party) either or.

    There is so many ways now a days to avoid grinds like dailies they shouldn't need to exist!

    This was at launch. Try doing that as a fresh player now. You get rolled. It's not as fun when level 40 characters with full skills just steamroll the game. SWTOR was a disaster on more fronts than I care to go over as it has nothing to do with Wildstar. Lets just say Wildstar taking ANYTHING from that game as a positive is a bad thing.
  9. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

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    Maybe now that it has gone free to play things have changed, but before, when it was still a subscription game, the leveling PvP was phenomenal. It got even better months after launch, when they finally put level 50s in their own bracket.
  10. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I know I was there. I again am going to avoid derailing this into a SWTOR discussion thread. So I'll be ending this topic at this point. I'll just say that scaling pvp systems are not the right answer. There is no pvp reward to doing PvP that way. Getting PvP gear that has no effect in PvP. Never made a bit of sense.
  11. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yes that was very, erm, enlightening, thank you very much.


    The answer for pretty much anyone is going to be "The First Time".

    It's inevitable that things feel considerably less epic after you've spent an entire decade encountering them again and again and again.
  12. Moor

    Moor New Cupcake

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    Yeah, this is a long post indeed. I'll reply to some of the things you said for now.

    The thing about catering to casuals and the game feeling epic. I feel you. And, I don't know how exhaustively you have researched Wildstar, but the devs have actually said pretty much the same thing as you did regarding that, that they want to bring back the awe of stumbling into someone with awesome raidgear. I do think, though, that you should have separate, more casual friendly character progression available too. The gear should look less epic than top end raid gear and be significantly worse (I'm thinking, the last tier of casual non-raid content PvE gear should have stats about the same level as average (think non-set) loot in entrance level raids). This would give people who simply can't raid something to aspire towards, and also lower their barrier of entry to raiding. The casual stuff, I feel, should still be difficult and time consuming, but you should be able to do it solo/in 5-man groups with the possibility to more flexible time frame. Think epic story-heavy quest chains for each piece of gear. Something I need to add: if you are going to have different rarities of loot (as I'd hope), do make the epics, or whatever they will be called, actually very rare. I think it was a bad idea for WoW to start giving out purple gear to everyone: stats wise it's fine for me that people don't need to work their asses off to be able to progress, but the whole idea of "full epics" lost all it's meaning at some point. Hell, I remember being VERY proud when I got full blues for the first time.

    I do remember drooling at people in Orgrimmar in mid vanilla wow. And how awesome I felt when, months later, a newbie whispered me, in awe, regarding my near complete tier 2 set.

    The game being one that the devs love, I don't think is going to be a problem. Everything we've heard from Carbine implies they are genuinely very, very excited about the game. Just look at how communicative they are.


    Regarding the amount of servers at launch and phasing. I agree 100% with you. Nothing is more terrible than an MMO in which you feel very lonely. I think it would be a good idea to shard the starting zones at launch (though get rid of that too, later), though, so as to make the game playable for people. But don't shard it too low. I want the starting zone to feel crowded at launch.

    The raid portals: I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. I do think, though, that you COULD make it work. First of all, getting a personal raid portal in your housing area should not be easy. Secondly, you have to consider where the portal will take you. If it zones you straight in to the instance, that will be horrible for the open world. But how about the nearest hub? The place where you would take the taxi to anyways. Would it, in your opinion, be so bad, if through considerable effort, you could create a device that teleported you to the proverbial Thorium Point? This, imo, goes for your regular dungeon finder as well. Raid finder? Just don't have it.

    Separation of PvE and PvP: I think they need to sort of separate these two. Don't have the best raiding gear be the best PvP gear or vice versa. But have them still be good, even very much so. Having your raid gear be completely useless in PvP is really annoying. But if you want to have legitimate competetive PvP (which I think is a good idea), you can't have mainly PvE focused people just stomping everyone.

    Tokens: I do agree here, at least for the most part, though I'm not nearly as passionate in this point as you seem to be. PvP vendors? Not sure about this. I think you could have vendors or something for arena, at least, as it fits with the concept. And the way you get loot from PvP does need to be systemized way more than it would be in your model.

    Dailies: They will probably have dailies. But what kind of dailies? Are they the same every day? Difficult to say. If they are the same way as in wow, yeah, I agree, no thanks. But we still have no clue whatsoever as to what kind of a system they will have in place here. Here's hoping it'll be good.

    +/- weapons: Don't really have any experience on this kind of thing, but it does sound good to me. I only ever raided seriously in WoW during Vanilla and TBC and neither of those obviously had that system.

    Lore: I agree. You are supposed to be a soldier, when it comes to MMOs, not a messiah.

    Telegraphs: This here is the part I feel you are way off in. I understand why you feel the way you do, and I sort of did first as well. But think about it this way: if you were to have raid mechanics of similar complexity as wow does/did, yeah, the telegraphs would make it stupid easy. But with a system like they will have in Wildstar, you can have infinitely more complex fights than you do in WoW and have them be possible. I haven't played the game, but from what I have heard, bosses in it have very complex mechanics even in the early 5 man dungeons, and this is enabled by telegraphs.

    One thing I'd like to add to your list: don't make the leveling process too solo friendly. Sure, it should be possible to solo up to cap level, but I really do think that having stuff like elite quests in the open world really enhances the social feel of an MMO. Quests like Cruel's intentions in TBC are very important.
  13. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    There is a difference in "listening" to your customers complaints and catering to casual game play.
  14. Haoli

    Haoli Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't mean to be horribly contrarian, but that's not really true. On the other hand, there's a lot of 'epic' moments.

    My first raiding experiences were in Dark Age of Camelot, participating in 40-100 man PvE raids, and occasionally leading in 50-60 man PvP groups (though often stepping down to participant on nights where we were larger, and had some of the more famous leaders around)

    Both of those experiences were absolutely amazing.

    My second raiding experience was in Burning Crusade years later, and that was fantastic as well. Alterac Valley was good fun too, and some of the longer matches I would equal to the experience I had in DAoC RvR.

    These experiences, too, were some of the best I've ever had.

    I would later go on to raiding in Rift, challenging Hammerknell, the hardest content at the time. While I wouldn't say it was the best raiding experience I've had, it was certainly quite great.

    My last large scale PvP experience would be as a member of Jade Quarry in Guild Wars 2, where we were having some absolutely brutal matches in the top server bracket. That, too, matched up with my past experiences in terms of 'epic'.



    I can't really say the feeling has gone away in the last twelve years of playing MMOs---I'm just looking for the next game to give me that feeling, and I've got a very solid feeling that Wildstar will be that MMO.
  15. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Jump on Steam and download Dragon Nest for free (You can thank me later) it has one of the most fluid action combat game play I've ever played and uses a +/- item system. It is a shame that Dragon Nest game play style has not been incorporated into a good MMO yet. But give it a whirl you'll understand after what +/- systems feel like / do. It really drives perfectionists crazy because it's not easy to get +12- +15 weapons and its one hell of an accomplishment to have. Just makes your epic Tier Gear even more incredible to people.
  16. Exodus_31

    Exodus_31 Cupcake

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    I'm sorry, but a lot of readers are turning away before they get to the meat of the post. Would a good phrase for this be "Gaming Snobbery"?

    Honestly, online communities have a lot of their consumer base in casual players that play for their free time and enjoy the IP and content rather than burn through it for a living like a professional gamer does. It's a very short-sighted thing to say, which seems to be an epidemic in the forums lately. People are getting lost in a sea of speculation and nitpicking to really look at what we know (which is very little) about the game.

    Note: Again, I apologize, but I stopped reading this after seeing the quoted phrase.
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  17. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    I have to ask a question, and yes, I'm being serious in asking this Crucifer. Is this game really for you?? Doesn't seem like you like the ideas that they are putting into the game already. Have you read everything they've said about their game? Have you paid attention to anything? Seems like you don't like things that lots of us here to like and that are going to be in the game. Like Telegraphs. They're in the game, they're going to get harder as the leveling goes on. Have you actually heard and really listened any of the Carbine people talking about how much harder they believe they can make things because of the telegraphs??

    Have you heard any of them talking about their game?? And heard how much love and excitement they have for the game that they're developing?? I've not heard a single one say, "Oh, i just kinda like it, it's ok... maybe...??" no, I hear every single one of them trying their darndest not to spill all the beans that they possibly can because they're so dang excited about it they could burst! I'm pretty sure it's killing every single one of them that they can't talk more about things!
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  18. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    You need player retention. Casuals can end up as raiders one day, and raiders can end up casuals. You want to keep folks interested with other content ( not raid or high end pvp ) so they stick around enough to get motivated to enter raiding content. And if a raider has to go casual, he/she will end up quiting if the game doesnt offer anything to keep them interested.
    Casual doesnt mean nerfing everything. The word and tone are imprecise and too broad.

    Casual as carbine has defined content, is content for soloers and folks with time constraints. Its not going to be looking for raid or easy raid content. Casual is a time issue.
  19. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I can agree with a lot of those points, but not with others. I actually like the telegraphing idea. I mean, it can be really good if they take it really far. Not just a circle from time to time. but if we get a blob of circles, and a veritable maze created, then telegraphing will be great. As with everything, it can be badly implemented, or well implemented, so lets hope for the later.

    No flying mounts, no auto-ports on LFG, all that I can agree with. And it comes down to "don't add too much convenience". Having convenience is the game is good, and necessary, but having too much convenience can be bad. So there should be a limit to it so we have a game that we can still play and interact with. This to me is very important. Not too little convenience that the game is too uncomfortable to play. but not so much convenience that it practically does everything for you.

    One part I really disagree with though, is the 1st point. "Do not cater to casuals". That is just wrong. Now, I'm not saying that they should cater to casuals only and not raiders either. If Carbine wants a successful game, they have to cater to EVERYONE. Casuals, and raiders, and soloers, and crafters, and PVPers, and absolutely everyone. Can it be done? Yes it can. Is it easy? heck no. But that is really the secret underneath it all. There is no need to cater to one type of crowd only, they should provide good content for all players. I know it's not easy, but that is what they should do if they want to be really successful. I agree that raiders should have the really top end gear that everyone looks up to, but dungeon runners should have their good gear that even raiders should look up to as well.

    The game will be really successful if they can pull people in all directions. "Gosh, raiding has some cool gear, but running dungeons as well... Even crafting has some awesome gear! gotta try that... Look at that PVP set! I want some pieces as well!!". Limiting a game to just good raiding, or good PVP, or good solo content is a bad idea for an MMO. It has to excel in EVERYTHING!

    I'm dreaming, but I believe that is the secret.
  20. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not saying casuals should be ignored. There should be content for them through and through. They should not be the driving force for Quality of Life. This ruins the essence of MMOs. When a casual thinks its too time consuming to run to a dungeon because he only has 1 hour to play and just wants to teleport to the dungeon and do his run for his gear. This then takes the Quality of Life out of the world itself because now everyone not including just casuals (Which is 99% of the population by itself) are not going outside the city walls anymore. Now the simple task of running to a dungeon and being apart of the world of the MMO is dead. All because casuals got catered to.

    To me it's an epidemic. And a bad one that really kills MMOs before they even get started.

    NOTE: This is just one example.
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