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Addons - Yay or Boo?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Billco, Aug 23, 2012.

?

Do you like the fact that WildStar is going to allow/be Addon friendly?

  1. Yup!

    42 vote(s)
    65.6%
  2. Nah!

    9 vote(s)
    14.1%
  3. Meh! (don't care either way)

    13 vote(s)
    20.3%
  1. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok so Carbine has already announced that Wildstar will be addon friendly.

    Personally, I hate addons.

    Sure i've come across a few features that were cool but in those instances I'd much prefer if they had been incorporated into the games UI.

    I think addons can make people lazy. The GTFO one springs to mind that would scream at you if you stood in the stupid, instead of...well watching your enviroment.

    Threat meters....oh my god do I hate these. What ever happened to the old days where you gauged your threat by just knowing how much dps you were putting out? Did that boss just look at me a second? yeah better stop dps'ing for a bit...

    DPS Meters - ok so sure they can be handy on a personal basis or for organised raiding ( I actually like the way swtor handled this one, eventually) but I hated it in wow because of the elitist attitude it brought with it. Not to brag, but on my mage my dps was pretty insane, unfortunately whenever a lower geared toon would join our randoms, or perhaps someone that didn't know their class, it wouldnt' be long before someone would start giving them grief because they were doing half my dps. (thats just one example of many where I feel public dps monitors are lame)

    So many options. Before long there's about 500 addons that all do the same thing, and you gotta sift through them all and find ones you like yada yada and then the game patches and all your addons break so you gotta go through the process of updating them etc etc etc and then you find out the rest of your raid is using a different addon completely so you gotta start using that one otherwise DBM won't communicate etc etc...

    There have been some addons that i've found to be amazing. Auctioneer for one - god that made the auction house so much more fun for me, but that aside, if given the choice - i'd just do the legwork myself and go without addons completely.

    Mostly curious to see people's opinions really.
  2. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Okay, apparently I have missed that. But yay!

    If done right they can be very useful.

    I think the whole concept of managing threat is boring. I think Blizzard messed up a lot of things in Cataclysm, but making threat an non-issue was the best thing they did. For a tank not worring about threat makes room for more interesting things, like preventing to get hit or damage reduction by blocking. Wildstar's combat system is all about that imho (threat markings on the ground). So don't think the threat meters will be needed.

    In a raid they are a tool for the leader to see where there are improvements. I do use them to compare myself to others. If I see that I do less dps then fellow players with almost the same gear, I know I'm doing something wrong and that I need to improve or found out where I do wrong. On a more personal level, I use the meter to see how I perform in detail. How often does that Fireball crit? Does my damage improve if I refresh that buff a couple of seconds sooner or do I have to let it run off? So yes for me on this one. I need it if I want to compete on a raiding level. I really missed that in SWtoR and left before they apparently implemented that.

    I think the community decides which addons are the most popular and are 'mandatory'.
    SiegaPlays likes this.
  3. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am pretty meh on add-ons. I have played games like WoW that pretty much need them and I have played others where the UI is useful enough for me. Unfortunately, thanks to Blizzard's stance on add-ons and what people are now used to, games that do not offer the option tend to come under a lot of scrutiny (read as griping) from players. However, if the developer puts some effort into their UI aside from base features, I am totally fine with not having the add-ons.

    DPS meters can be useful though in my run it usually came down to my rogue and my buddy's warlock constantly posting who was beating who and talking trash to the other one. You would swear we hated each other LOL!

    Certain tools like over-healing meters that could help a healer with their rotation or when to use what were useful. The biggest problem with any add-on as Billco mentioned are the ones that contribute to an elitist attitude. I really hope the game community of Wildstar is more pleasant that what WoW has devolved into.
    SiegaPlays likes this.
  4. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Exactly. It's the players who use the addons that make it elitist. Not the addons itself.
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  5. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    Exactly! However, if they ever implement a "gear score" type of system I am so done. That made the ***holes come out of the woodwork.
  6. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Game-play Addons are a crutch. (I mean threat meters, healing wizards, standing-in-the-fire warnings) If you need some external program to be able to play, then well... what I can say?

    But then, addons come in 2 varieties in my opinion, Quality of Life addons don't count to the above, because all they do is help you with UI and key-mapping. I don't use those either, but that's because I haven't played a MMO yet whose default UI was -that- terrible I couldn't configure it to my liking using it's own options.
  7. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am all for quality of life or when the occasional role-playing mood strikes me, role-play assistance add-ons. Usually if the game has a handy macro system where I can configure simple things like say cast Hunter's Mark while telling the pet to charge at the same time with one key press, I am OK with that.
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  8. Hydros

    Hydros Cupcake

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    Addons can be a double edged sword, on one hand it can make the game a more "Play the UI instead of the actual game" but on the other hand I love making my own addons (I'm a programmer that's what I enjoy and do for living) that can make my gameplay experience better and could probably enhance someone else's gameplay too. Anyways, I give a big YAY to addons!
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  9. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sorry to all that don't like them. (I do know the arguments and I even agree with some of them)
    I have to have my raiding tools though.
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  10. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I love addons, but I only use the ones that change the way the UI looks to better suit my style. In WoW, I mixed and matched until I found one that I really liked and stuck with that for ages. The ones I dislike are the threat meters (I believe they make it take less skill to DPS if you have a number you're looking at) and healing helpers. I hated whatever the healbot was in WoW that was required by every raid. Sure, it was more efficient... but it still felt like cheating to me. Yes, you can do similar things with programmable keyboards, but every raid isn't requiring that you have that keyboard to raid...

    So, I'm all for a hearty yes when dealing with changes to the UI and I'm looking forward to making my own UI in WildStar... I was dismayed when the TOR UI wasn't programmable... :(
  11. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    See I gotta disagree there. For instance, one of the things they changed towards the end was that CC didn't pull aggro anymore. So you could just waltz near a group of mobs...cc a couple, root one more....and then when the tank felt like it...pull.

    That really annoyed me...I mean it wasn't exactly complicated for us all to hit our cc's at the same time as the tank pulls...but it was a tactic... and I couldn't help be a little pleased when pulls go off smoothly as we are all doing our jobs.

    But apparently peeps <REDACTED>ed about it on the forums that it was too hard...so they changed it.

    If a tank doesn't have to worry about threat then what...sure if your gonna implement one of those systems where you have to do stuff...what was it called...retro-active tanking? then maybe...

    Oh absoloutely. Like I said, I like the way swtor did it. You could parse your OWN dps log so YOU could see what you were doing right/wrong and if you CHOSE to, you could link it up with your raid leader so he could check things out after a run.

    BUT, every tom/dick and harry couldn't see what you were/were not doing.

    Yeah but a lot easier to remove the addons than to remove the players :)

    Really? I actually liked that system. To the point of a tank in cloth couldn't jump into a heroic and spam die while the healer wears a hole in their quick heal button.
  12. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    I suppose I should have started with, I hate SOME addons.....

    Also, BW has got me wondering now....I KNOW I read that they are going to be addon friendly but do you think I can find the original post anymore.....

    If anyone happens to know where it is, feel free to link :)
  13. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope if they do you will reconsider. :) In an earlier thread I was expressing the exact same concern. I hate GS. I never had to deal with it (always had the gear and ran with my guild) but, people became reliant on it to decide who was geared enough to go. (which was not a good way to decide imo)

    The problem is when people have been carried. They have the GS but no skill. You end up getting thrown into a random or a pug with one and it's either carry them some more or find a replacement.<<(depending on the game that can be easy or hard)

    On a personal note.... I think I would enjoy beating someone in a duel when they think that GS is what matters.
  14. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Ah the CC part, that sucks. I was mostly talking about the fight itself.

    That is what Carbine is going to do.

    Ah, yes. Didn't they make that available as a log file outside the game? That's a horrible solution. You want to have something in-game.

    You contradict yourself a bit. First the players can't have it easy by removing threat, so why should Carbine take the easy road here? I'm sure they can come up with a solution.
  15. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/blog/wildstar_wednesday_yes_well_have_ui_addons.php

    There you go. I have posted my opinion on addons in another thread.

    To me they are a great benefit for enabling "more senses" gameplay, rather than cartering to those who experience/observe best in visual or text feed, addons makes it possible to make those strong on audio senses be in the game at the same level, rather than taking a struggling backseat due to inadequecies in the ui and gameplay to enable different types of perception. Personally I love having three senses to rely on, to react to, rather than the limited two most games, when timing is also an issue.

    In MUDs I am totally fine with just text ;-) But we are getting a few steps beyond MUDs here, and games needs to consider gamers difference in perception too. This includes color blind mode, left/right hand mode and such.

    They are also great for measuring, where I am in my skill/gear progression, and what content I am capable of aiming for next, not to mention which areas I should work more on. "Hmm, I am not the tank, but I take more damage and get more oneshot than the rest in the group besides the tank" - maybe I need to work on gear for the content, my skills in avoiding damage, etc. They are great to tell me if I am bringing at least as much to the group, as everyone else.

    They are great for measuring improvements for a regular team.

    Where they are not great, the elitist part, is when they can be used to whack someone over the head for their "fail" smurf in doing smurf when smurf happens. This is where I want a game, that does the job, that does not let someone enter a teamwork, where they are totally not up to par on gear alone or has not been able to do the keying parts to deal with the content, something that both gate people on their gear and their skills - something I have written wall up and wall down about on the dungeon finder threads :p

    And where would I be without Fishing Buddy, really, seriously, don't take my fishing buddy away from me!
  16. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    This could also mean something like being enabled to voice which abilities to use, keybind to voicerecognition. After all, skills should not be measured in who is the best mouse/keyboard juggler, but rather with who knows which ability to use when.
  17. pseudo

    pseudo Podcaster

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    I don't care about the annoying add-ons that trumpet who stood in what, I don't care about gearscore add-ons, nor do I care about dps/hps check add-ons. At the end of the day, all of these are incredibly useful and, when used correctly, are an invaluable learning/expediency tools. The one add-on that, while very useful, seems to dumb down the game, is DBM and others in that same family. Having big letters flash up that say "YOU'RE STANDING IN SOMETHING PLEASE GET OUT" lessens the player's need to be spatially aware.

    Give me all the elitist add-ons you can throw at me, but can we please just do away with DBM?
  18. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    There were a couple add-ons that I liked in WoW. I can't remember what they were but they were innocuous. I don't like some add-ons but as long as I am not "required" to use them I don't care. If someone excludes me from a group because I don't have that add-on, then it gets too personal. These games are suppose to be about fun, not about more stress in my life. I already have enough of that.
  19. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    The one add-on I absolutely loved was ArkInventory. Something to help me manage the giant mess that was my bank and bags was very handy. That's one of those quality of life add-ons I really enjoyed. It does not affect anything other than my sanity.
  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    And I disagree. DBM is partially a perception addon, it adds an extra layer of how to percept, what happens in the game, simply because the game does not distribute that layer efficiently. The game pretty much carters to a select group of players, who react faster to visual simula rather than audio stimula, and well, there are more people out there than those who are agreeable with visual stimula on a high level.

    DBM is useful for those who are not good at keeping track of the text passing by. It levels out the playing field, so the game is not just for those, who are good at seeing or reading what is going on, but also invites those who needs to hear it to have a chance of delivering the same a-game.
    If the game played on more senses than visual, maybe something like DBM would be less required.

    I loved audio trigger in EverQuest, because you could hear what happened the same time it was in text. Great tool.

    Where DBM goes a wee bit too far is in telling mechanics in advance. The timers it use is nice enough to have for expedient farm runs, but it does remove the complexity of raiding and thus the challenge.

    Still, nice enough for a first time person on an encounter rather than spending 15 minutes on having the raid leader explain it - again - and still they do not fully comprehend it until they stand in the situation and experience it for themselves.

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