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Addons - Yay or Boo?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Billco, Aug 23, 2012.

?

Do you like the fact that WildStar is going to allow/be Addon friendly?

  1. Yup!

    42 vote(s)
    65.6%
  2. Nah!

    9 vote(s)
    14.1%
  3. Meh! (don't care either way)

    13 vote(s)
    20.3%
  1. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    This is not auto healing. This is dependence on addons and not being able to heal properly without them. I agree with you that is a bad thing. I myself use mouseover macro's, which are provided in-game by Blizzard and the in-game raidframes. If any of my addons break it won't be gamebreaking for me. I can still heal and dispell properly.

    Healbot and Clique are addons I don't use personally. Like you stated, once you are used to the mouse clicks and the addon breaks for whatever reason (new patch, changes in api etc.) you are have a problem.
  2. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    A good healer makes sure to have a backup set of macros for casting some of the most needed spells if <REDACTED> happens to the addons. Slightly fewer spells than I can keybind to my mouse buttons though, so very limited in use for rarer spells, unless I choose to both click the target and click the hotbar slot with the spell with my mouse, which is totally inefficient - a 5 button mouse with 3 modifiers has 20 spell options to choose from after all, while a hotbar has 10-12 and I would not use modifiers, since I already have to spend time clicking one too many times on my keyboard using the keyboard buttons rather than my mouse buttons.

    Because that is the difference. You guys favor using keyboard buttons (all over the place), I favor using my mouse buttons with a set of modifier keys. My way still sounds the more efficient for healing to me, so going back 8 years to how the old ways worked is not something I would be thrilled about. I like efficient :)

    One of the reasons healbot failed was because a simple dc would mess it up, saw way too many healers helpless after doing that, when they didn't have the benefit of knowing how to use older mechanics from earlier games. Grid and clique never had that problem, so that is what I recommended newcomers. Grid also provided a far more sophisticaed yet easy to set up aura indicator feature imho, which is why I have not been able to find better raid unit frames. Other raid units always seem so bloated in the overall screen real estate when compared to grid. Unfortunately I have to run another unit frame addon to show focus, focus target, target, tt, and tott where I want them.
  3. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    The problem with WoW is that so many mouse buttons are not officially supported in WoW. In it's core it's a keyboard game. Addons and hardware solutions like the Razer Naga mouse change that. The hardware mouse solution is the better one of the two. You can still use in-game keybindings in combination with macro's to heal the way you would like. It's independent of addon's which can get broken for whatever reason.

    It all depends on your playstyle. In WoW you are standing still most of the times while casting so I can get away with keyboard bindings (1-10 etc). In Tera this was almost undo able because of FFT. I had to play with a Naga in that game. Both work for me, although after hours of gameplay my thumb hurts of using the Naga, it's not suited for it, lol!
  4. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm seriously a newb. What's a macro?

    Also, I'm left handed (using a mouse in my right hand) so keyboard hot-keys are second nature to me. I can barely handle a 2 button wheel mouse! :p The way I play makes using the mouse more than for clicking my heal target to be too slow and inefficient.

    I'm fairly okay in FPS games, so long as I have a autofire weapons like a assault rifle. that way I can simply hold down the trigger :p single shot stuff is slow because I can't spam the button.

    I'll see how well my way of playing takes to WildStar. I might end up using the tab-target system rather than freeform. (Or possibly some addon that will help? omg...)

    Overall, for me, I entered this thread as a Addon: Meh. Some are okay, most are 'cheating' almost. I haven't heard anything to change that opinion.
  5. WildZhen

    WildZhen Cupcake-About-Town

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    I see Chrillin, it's true that if the dev of wow are tunning the fights than the idea of the healbot make a little sense. Last thing good friends to run DG/raid with is way better to enjoy a game, in my previews post I was more talking about high end raid content done by the top three guild on the entire server for example, where addons are okay to have but many gm's I've known and even myself have seen healer fail because of this mechanic of healbot. I played swtor and not having some addons made me feel really weird, don't get me wrong I can play without addons on, and that is where I draw the line between addons that directly impact your gameplay and others related to UI ease of use. A balance in both is nice to have. The key word here is balance lol.

    Black wolf actually in my initial post I did have a section to answer your previous post where you talked about that and macro but had it delete because I screwed up lol. Anyway I am a macro kind of guy just like you I love macro's yet I am careful with them for they can be life saving or your downfall. I never search online for macros in general I just do my own since it's really easy at least in wow. macros are good (i.e:cast a "your next spell is instant" couple with"Big heal" on a tank who is about to die in one button) but many players have asked me for macro to do things like ease your leveling "If I click one button can it do my rotation"(not possible anyway, but still there is way around) and here is the same problem as for some addons macros that impact too much your gameplay, not good imo.(i.e best way to see a problem with macro is when doing pvp, pvper like macros but not too much cause they have to be able to react to the huge amount of different situation happening in an arena...and yes pvper are arena ers(?!) for me)
    I did say "auto" heal just because I considered it auto, now I do not think the one asking the question meant it that way so don't fret too much on it.
  6. WildZhen

    WildZhen Cupcake-About-Town

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    Good player knows about the limitation of their addons so following logic they try to figure out the solution as you stated back up and all. Good player knows their class and can play even without addons on because they know the limitation of their addons. Simply put a good player have experienced the game otherwise they would never have thought patch day=tommorrow my addons are dead. My point is really few good player have dependance over addons it might bother them not to have them but they can deal with it.(+good player are going on Wild Star lol).

    to put it simply a macro is a list of command that you put together (example:/say Hello /say how you doing?)
    you put it together and they take only one button click space on your spell bar. Once you click on it you get:
    -Hello
    -howyou doing?

    you get the idea when it's applied to spells.
    I'm also left handed and have always played games the way you do (like most players) it never affected my reactivity and like you I feel modifier(alt/control) are natural. But I also play starcraft, which has train me I guess to play with mouse and be precise. Here is my advice, play starcraft (rofl). If you want to change your views on addon and cheating, just look post above where I draw the line between addons impacting your gameplay and the others impacting the UI. Having addon like sexymap, which change the way your minimap look, is neater and don't involve the "cheating" you refer to.
  7. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hahaha. I can't believe I've played WoW since it came out, and no-one ever told me about them!

    I've never minded stuff to make your UI look pretty, that's why I'm 'meh' towards Addons and not 'boo' towards them. I just feel too many are 'cheating' things. Or at least removing a lot of the skill to playing.
  8. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    Macros are great. Like Black Wolf, I really prefer them over addon solutions. This is probably because I am more of a minimalist than most. I hate having tons of bars and frames all over my screen. Most of the addons I did use were to remove the bloat of the base UI. Goodbye huge ability bar, hello compact set of bars in its place. Stuff like that. If you want to have some fun, have your guild members take screenshots of their UI and post them on your forums. It is always surprising to see how everyone configures their screen.

    I would say one of the most fun things I ever did with macros was in EQ. Necromancers had an ability called Voice Graft that let you speak through your pet's voice if you were selected on the pet. I used that ability combined with a set of macros to have arguments with my pet in /say. Made for a bit of amusing role play and usually made observers laugh.

    Never did get the mouse over stuff rolling in WoW though. Since I was usually a dps rogue it was not really necessary. Oh, another great feature for macros....multi boxing. That was fun for awhile too LOL!
  9. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    I use mouseover mostly with healing as well. As with rogues, it is great to apply Blind on a target with mouseover. You don't have to switch targets to apply it on an add or player that way. ;)
  10. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Yeah, I use clique mousebutton bind exactly like that for both misdirect and tranquilize
  11. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    A total minimalist here as well, I don't like macro's but I do like mouse keybinds. Now my wife and most of my friends are totally the opposite. The more stuff they can put on their screen the better lol. Heck, I have a friend that runs multiple monitors just so he can have more stuff to look at while he plays. :)
  12. MiZTiiX

    MiZTiiX Cupcake

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    As long as the addons are purely for customization of UI and not a "guide" on where everything is and how to play the game that is REQUIRED for you to have maximum performance then i'm okay
  13. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    I cannot stand mouse binds. I am a total keyboard minimalist. I have a 2 wheel and 5 button Logitech and I don't think I even have all of the buttons bound.

    I have a buddy who has so much information scrolling past him on his screen I am really curious how he even sees the game world.
  14. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I posted on the wow forums for an option to auto decline duel challenges, they have been running rampant lately. People refered to an addon, and this is one of the things I dislike about addons.

    Default options has auto decline trades, auto decline guild invites, but no auto decline duel challenges, seriously, I need to install an addon for something that overall is a feature like the other two, avoidance of interaction without prior warning (unsolicited spam imho)?
  15. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yes, that type of thing is seriously annoying and should be handled by the game client and not an addon. I for one am not a fan of Blizzard's apparent stance regarding a lot of annoyance/griefing mechanics they fail to address with WoW.
  16. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    The only way I knew how to deal with people spamming duel challenges was to let them time out. It seemed to work, they got annoyed I got left alone. :)

    I agree it should be an in-game system like trade decline and guild invites.
  17. Phiqu

    Phiqu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not direct a addon more a big macro but i would love it to see it in WildStar too.

    It's active the mouselook permanent and brings the mouse cursor as a crosshair in the middle of the screen.
    This in combination with the freeform targeting would be awesome.
  18. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    In Tera there was a similar system. It worked really good.
  19. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    I would rather that the game provide the means to get what information I want or to do certain tasks more efficiently (or whatever the add-on reason would be) itself rather than relying on some 3rd party developer. That was ArenaNet's philosophy for Guild Wars and I liked it.

    I use Diablo 3 as an example:
    In the beginning, a lot of useful items would drop and appear white, like normal trash items. Specifically, health potions and the rare mats used for crafting the Staff of Herding. These then got easily overlooked. That is unacceptable. Since the developer was not addressing it, I'm sure people were desiring a Mod, or add-on to address the issue.

    Finally Blizzard fixed that <REDACTED> and the rare mats appear as brown (legendary) and the potions are light blue. Even though it took a while to fix it, I'm glad Blizzard owned up to it and fixed it.

    Make your game present the information we need as players. Make certain info toggle-able for those that don't want it.
  20. Nectavian

    Nectavian New Cupcake

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    I haven't read all 6 pages :confused: of this discussion, but note that the reason most of the "questionable" mods in WoW were capable (in the beginning) is actually the logging, not the mod system. The mod system allowed them to create the windows and views that made them extra useful, but the combat/chat log data that those views used was what made them controversially powerful.

    Take threat for example. When the first threat mods came out, they were based on the *combat log only*. The authors measured the threat of various abilities, combined that with threat modifiers (boss/tank abilities), and presented a very educated guess at how threatened a boss was by each member. Later, when they started sharing log events in the background through chat logs, this (and damage meters) became too accurate to ignore, and the systems became a standard...even adopted by Blizzard eventually.

    I believe that a mod system can only threaten a "standard" gaming UI if it provides the tools/data to do so. If the modding language only allows you to modify the existing UI elements (color, texture, position, size, etc), it would be very difficult for mods to provide you with much more than the default does...it becomes a style choice only.
    However, if the devs give raw data to the mods, those mods can begin to compete with the standard UI for delivering data in a more advantageous or unforeseen way.

    I don't think it's up to the language or presentation...it's the access to logs/data. That's what should be considered by the devs when designing a mod interface -- no data at all (force default UI with customization) or provide raw data (expect to be shown-up by modders, who will eventually make "required" mods).

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