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Aircraft. Flight and why it could be awesome.

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by WakeskaterX, May 25, 2013.

  1. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    And my comebacks to you:

    1. True that max level flying could help with that. Eventually tho most players will be at max level and only fraction of people are leveling. Basically what you are saying then is; It's ok for max level zones to feel desolate and it is ok that the new people leveling in the game never see anyone who has reached max level?

    2. If you carelessly AFK in the world you should be punished. Last time I was in army, wich is years ago, there was guard and lookout shifts going on so rest of the group can sleep and do their daily activities freely. If you choose to not care about the hostiles around you and go AFK in PvP eviroment you should be able to be killed. It's how war is. (I know bit of a Hitler Card that one but I wanted to make a point that it's not only PvP, it's actually suposed to feel like two factions are in war with each other.)

    3. -

    4. X and Y axis has obstacles you have to go around with your bots. Flying makes it very easy to go from X to Z and from Z to Y automatically without any need to avoid obstacles. Even the most simple bots can do this.

    5. No. Carbine has stated path content should not end when you reach max level.

    6. Look above. Even if you are on max level, doesn't mean you are done with the content. This game is not wow where only supported endgame activities are suposed to be Raiding and PvP, even tho these two activities are also represented in the game.


    ps. Sorry for quite sh1tty arguments and debate, it's 6:27 AM here, one can't be on his sharpest at this hour.

    Edit: Typos and brainfarts, should stop with the forums for tonight and go play that Torchlight 2.
  2. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Nope. Nothing I've suggested would ruin anyone's fun at all. If you don't care to fly, don't fly. Don't ruin flight for everyone else.

    Good to hear, because we've solved that. Flight would in no way harm the Explorer's path so you can embrace it with your conscience clear.

    Exactly, but as they've already said in the lore, flying machines have difficulty dealing with loftite crystals, so just putting a few of those around a given area can make it safely off limits.

    This is not really true, because the actual content is all on one axis. If there is content to be done, then all players engaging on that content will be on the ground and be visible. Anyone not on the default X/Y plane is, by definition, not interacting with the content, and is therefor irrelevant, whether they are flying or just logged out. Flying does nothing to reduce the visible player population, that is entirely based on the attractiveness of the content in a given area.

    The solution to "empty zones" has nothing at all to do with travel, and everything to do with making the open world content interesting to PLAY. If the open world content is worth playing, people will play it. If it's just stuff that gets in your way in between the fun stuff, then forcing players to slog through it anyways helps no one.If the open world content is FUN, then convenient travel just makes the world seem more populated, since it allows players to travel to where the action is in the shortest time possible, meaning that the maximum number of players will be AT their locations of choice at any given time, rather than scattered around "omw."

    b) is effortlessly solved by preventing players form using mounts while in combat, and giving a reasonable castying time for their use, preventing players from using them to escape combat. c) is not a problem, if people are AFK then it's perfectly fine that they not be targetable. ho would want to target an AFK player anyway? They would not fight back. a) is the most valid complaint here, you would have less unplanned "meet-cutes" with other players, but if a player wants to engage in open world PvP then they will be on the ground, where it takes place. If they are in the air, then clearly they have no interest in engaging in open world PvP at that time, and it's not your prerogative to have them be available to you. They do not exist solely to be your victim.

    Even if all of this were true, it applies only to PvP servers, and is completely irrelevant to discussions of PvE server flight. If the only possible solution is that PvE servers can have flight and PvP servers can't, then that would be fine by me.

    Nope. This one's solve. Move on with less straw-men.

    I doubt farming will be much of an issue, since resource nodes in this game fight back. Anyone who tries to bot resource nodes will likely end up dead.

    Depends on if it's small and insignificant. If the world is designed well, then it looks great from the air. Carbine believes they've designed Nexus well.

    If that's a reason that Carbine considers a valid one, then I lose all respect for them as developers. Devs should make the game take time by making it FUN. Artificial brakes put into the game to deliberately slow players down in a way that is not fun (such as by making even casual travel a huge hassle) is just a sign of a poorly made game. It is always slower to write a book than to read one, but nobody respects the writer that rambles on for pages and pages just to stretch the book out.

    Sure, except that this is not the army, this is a videogame.

    Can they also fight harvest node wurms?
  3. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    If you are on the streets of a city and you remove everyone who is just passing by and leave only the ones that are doing a task on the streets, how many people are you left with?


    Indeed, I have said this exactly same thing before. Tho it's not easy task to come up with new content for the entire world faster than people can consume it.

    Me. If you decide to not pay attention in a warzone you have to understand you might be killed.


    Sometimes what players want and what players need are mutually exclusive. In order to have the feeling of war, you actually have to have people, even "innocent bystanders" participating in the carnage. You shouldn't be able always to decide if you want war or not, as war is upon you whether you wish it or not.


    Great if it is solved. Also there is no strawman argument there, I said it has potential to make one of the paths obsolete not that it will. Also I represented a valid consern.

    If your farming character has decen't gear and right spec for it, you undoubtedly can beat resource node enemies especially on the lower level areas with automated combat.

    You haven't been on a aircraft then? Fly over any major city and tell me if they look as interesting from 10 miles high as they do from the streets. Also just as a game example; Mountain Neverest in Kunlai Summit in World of warcraft. This mountain looks truly epic and awesome from the ground, obstacle no one could conqueror. Fly up and the higher you get the mountain shrinks under you and feels less and less epic. First time I got up the mountain with normal mount, I was happy as hell. When you fly up there, you don't really feel anything. It was 20 seconds of pressing your space bar, nothing else.

    You forget that authors might publish a book every 20 years, maybe every 30 years. Would you be willing to wait 20 years between a content patch in a game, and do you think it would be good business for Carbine? In order to buy time for them selves to create more content there has to be little time sinks here and there.

    Yet there are two factions in open war with each other.
    Most likely yes. People have writen complicated bots wich can actually do Arena PvP with good success. Now counter argument to that would be; Well if you can make such of a bots that will be able to farm no matter what, why would you try to stop it with having no flying mounts? Cause flying mounts make even the most simple farm bots able to do their job. The most dedicated farm bots are treat of the few, who share them among a very small playerbase or the authors sell them out for a quite high price. Bots that would lose fight to a mob such as that worm could just accept resurection and have a command that excludes the position where they last landed and continue to next position.
  4. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Anyways there has been many great ideas about flying on these forums. I was originally fanatically against flying mounts. Nowadays I think they could actually work in the game if made right and the world is interesting and engaging enough for people to not spend all of their time on their flying mounts.

    My list of six issues wasn't really against the flying, more so potential points that might need more looking at.

    It was also ansver to
    I represented few points, the person him self could decide if they are subjective or objective.
  5. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Less. Does that bother you? Should they add in NPCs that are just wandering around aimlessly to give the illusion of interaction? True interaction is not people passing by you that have no interest in you. True interaction involves shared activity, and having less people in transit does nothing to harm that.

    Depends on how well you design it. You can make a world that generates content on its own, constantly cycling tasks of interest that are worth pursuing. I spent several hours a night in GW2, only fifteen minutes of which is in a dungeon, the rest is spent running open world content. It can be done.

    Ok, well I have no interest in pandering to murderers, so forgive me if that argument doesn't sway me.

    Ok, then what if they had "PvE servers," "PvP servrs," and "Murderers servers," the latter being one in which there are plenty of NPCs spawned that just stand around waiting to be killed in their sleep. You could enjoy that server while those that want an actual challenge could play on the other two types.

    Yes, but we've sovled it, so it no longer has the potential to cause any problems. It's like Polio.

    Depends on how they scale things. If players can effortlessly harvest resources in lower level areas then that will be an economic issue whether there is flight or not. Bots can be pretty good at pathing, whether there is terrain in the way or not. Flying definitely makes it easier, but whether it's easier or not is irrelevant when the alternative is still "easy enough." There was plenty of botting in GW2 early on and they had no flight, but they got very good at sorting bots out and I haven't seen one in like six months now.

    It's also worth keeping in mind the telegraph system. I think it'll be tricky to design bots that can properly react to a telegraph,and "auto-attack to win it" isn't likely to be a strategy for success.

    I've flown plenty of times and it's magical. Yes, things look smaller from the air, though I doubt they'll let us get up to 10,000ft in Wildstar. Just because things look smaller doesn't mean that they are though. If the world is well designed then it may look smaller from the air, but it will still look plenty big. Take Skyrim, for example. Head to the top of a mountain and look down on the world, and it looks smaller, but it still looks massive.

    Yeah, true enough, so climb things if you want to climb them. People feel good about climbing Everest, even though you can take a helicopter to the top of it.I've felt pretty good before about climbing jump puzzles that were only 40ft high. It's the journey, not the destination.

    Sure, but if the game is designed well you won't even notice that they exist. Hobbling travel to force people to take the long way around all the time is a hackneyed time sink. Any time someone is doing something boring they have failed at their job.

    In a videogame. The purpose of a video game is to have fun, that trumps anything to do with war and factions.

    Any bot good enough to fight harvest nodes would be good enough to reach them.
  6. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    The problem with that viewpoint is player behavior will not change. If you start without flying mounts and get players to actually get used to the world and being a part of it and in it then when you introduce them later old habits will not hold sway.
  7. Vaos

    Vaos Cupcake

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    1. I like the idea of needing to take off from launching pads in hub towns and landing only in large flat spaces. Feels realistic. Maybe that’s pretty “flight taxi”-ish, but what’s wrong with flight taxis? I really like them - they add some ease of travel and convenience, but not so much convenience that they remove the need to move on foot and interact with the world when it comes to actually doing stuff in a zone. To me, that’s exactly what flight should be - more a way to get from one zone to another than a way to navigate to exactly wherever you want to be within a zone. Flight, for zone-to-zone travel, is more realistic and immersive than teleporting/waypoints but isn’t as prohibitively inconvenient as having to run, on foot, from one side of the countinent to another every time you want to do some mat farming. That’s good, I’d like something along those lines in the game.

    2. Alternatively, what about a limit to how high you can fly? So flying mounts could give a speed increase and bypass mobs, but you’d still be visible by players on the ground and have to fly around mountains, etc - i.e., still interact with the environment somewhat. And it wouldn’t undermine the explorer path. I’m just imagining playing as explorer and feeling really triumphant at the end of my climbing route/puzzle vista thing and then getting a buzzkill when I see someone cruising ten feet above me in a helicopter; I think all the vistas and awesome views they’ve been advertising as part of the explorer path should actually be exclusive to that path.

    Ideas I think wouldn’t work well:

    - make them only available at max level: I don’t think immersion and exploration should stop being meaningful when you hit max level. For many MMO players, most playtime is spent in endgame at max level - why shouldn’t they keep actively engaging with the virtual world at that point? I hope to continue enjoying explorer path content at max level, if it’s available.

    - make them only available in a few high level zones: once you have access to unrestricted flying in parts of the game world, and get used to that, it becomes frustrating when you go back to zones where you can’t fly anymore. I think people will want and demand the freedom they have in those high-level zones extended to other zones as well.

    - fix explorer conflict with “no-fly” zones around jumping puzzles: what is the point of jumping puzzles? We’re not going to be climbing mountains just for experience points and gold; the other (arguably more important) reason to jump your way up the mountain is to reach new heights and breathtaking views. If anyone can just fly an airship to the same height at the drop of a hat, what’s the point of working at the jumping puzzle? Suddenly, “you get to see the view from the very top of the mountain!” is no longer a perk for the explorer path. Instead, it’s “you get to take the really long and difficult way up to a height and view that you and everyone can also see by mounting up and holding spacebar.”

    - limited fuel resource: seems like it would quickly become trivialized with larger fuel packs, etc. and become an annoying formality that wouldn't really affect how we use flight.
  8. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yes it does to a degree. I do love to inspect other people who just pass by. Check their gear and achievements and guild out, PvP ranking and possibly start conversations with them.

    That would need the game to be true sandbox game not a theme park.



    I find it offensive that you call me a murderer. Like you said it is a game and it's MMORPGs last three words mean Role Playing Game. In game my role might be vicious soldier who has hard time to distinguish enemies from civillians but how you made it sound, was that you are actually comparing me as a person to a murderer.

    Again was that neccesary?

    I have done plenty enough of challenging content in both PvE and PvP. The fact I enjoy world PvP on all it's forms doesn't mean I don't enjoy challenging content. Like Greg Street said; World PvP is by definition unfair. Should there not be any kind of a world PvP is different discussion completelly. If you roll PvP realm it must mean you like the increased feeling of danger.

    I might had missed your solution, please educate me. Also polio has not been eradicated, yet.

    Not really. In normal scenarion competion, offer and demand are good enough to keep the situation in controll. Why would you farm items that give you less gold per hour than other commodity? You wouldn't. Reasonable person tries to optimise their Currency Gained per Hour Used. Bot's do not have this problem, time does not matter to them, wich twists the already saturated markets. Low level players to whom only low level resources are an option will be punished by this as the resource prices go lower than what efficient markets would allow.


    I think I have flown 20-25 times within last year. Sure first times with flying is magical, after the third time you just want to get sleep as fast as possible or pray that the laptop's battery will last the flight so you can watch series and movies.


    Exactly my point. It looks massive, now fly 50 yards up, then 100, then to 200 yards.. Tell me when the world starts to look flat and insignificant.

    Indeed and flying removes the journey.

    Noble goal but I would say impossible. I don't know a single game where you wouldn't have been bored for atleast a brief moment.

    War ain't always fun. There are different emotions that drive people such as anger. Finally getting a payback can be rewarding but in order to require a payback you require to be initially the losing side.

    Like I said, more advanced bot can fight the mobs and this kind of a mob would reach them even without flying mounts. The freely available BoTs then again can just die to the mob, make a trigger to exclude the last location where they have landed if they died.



    Anyways our conversation has became useless one liners and bickering wich bring no added value to these forums and to this thread so I shall stop it now.
  9. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, if they are massive TOR-like ships then yeah, but if they are personal flight vehicles like hoverbikes or hover boards or jetpacks or whatever, then I see no "realism/immersion" reason why they shouldn't be able to take off and land on any space that a player can stand on.

    And they can certainly include flight-taxis, I pretty much assume they're already in, I just don't want them to be the ONLY type of flying mount available.



    [​IMG]

    That would never happen because any rationally designed flight system for this game would have some mechanism to prevent player flight vehicles from coming anywhere near "terrain challenge" areas. Several perfectly functional and easy to implement systems have been included earlier in this thread.



    I don't do jump puzzles for the view, I do them for the challenge. I've done plenty of jump puzzles that were actually inside caves, so that the "peak" of them was just a solid room. The point of a jump puzzle is in the skill it takes to navigate it, or if not that then for the XP and loot you'd get at the end, not in the view you get.



    Those people are busy, they are on their way to someplace else and because they are on the ground and not in the sky, they need to pay attention to where they are going and have no time to type. Maybe if they were flying by instead they'd have their hands free for idle chatter.

    Sort of a mixture, really. A morphing theme park. most recent games have been moving in this direction.

    Occasional murderer then? I'm sure you do other things too, but killing a player "in his sleep" would certainly be virtual murder, in no way an honorable victory kill.

    I would hope not, but you seemed to insist that being able to slaughter players who posed no threat to you was something that was necessary to you. If so, a server where you could get that taken care of without bothering other players would be the best way to go, but yeah, ideally you could just be satisfied with fighting those who choose to fight you in honorable combat.

    So you could roll a character on both then.

    No, it mustn't. I have no interest in PvP, so I certainly wouldn't roll on a PvP server, but there are plenty of people that enjoy honorable PvP combat but have no interest in cutthroat butchery. I recently did a PvP jump puzzle for an achievement, and there were plenty of enemy players around. There's no way to communicate with enemies aside from your actions, but the players of both sides mostly had an understanding, and most opposing players would leave you alone unless attacked first, although there were a few real jerks that insisted on attacking people that showed no interest in combat.

    Soft no-fly zones. Consider, even if they do nothing else, they need to have some sort of flight barrier across the outer borders of the game map, they can't just have players flying off into infinity. The simplest barrier would be invisible walls, but we all know how "ugly" those are. "Visible" walls like in CoH are little better. The best solution is to have "soft walls," a zone that would take maybe ten to twenty seconds to cross at full speed, where it warns you to turn back, and then it forces you to turn back, either by teleporting you, or knocking you backwards and to the ground. None of that "nose against the glass" effect you can do with invisible walls.

    Around any terrain that they didn't want players flying across, zone barriers, jump puzzles, fortified enemy encampments, etc., they can have these borders around them. Defining them would be easy, they would just be a double layered invisible shape in the world. Rationalizing them would also be easy, they've established that loftite crystals (which many JPs already seem to contain) destabilize aircraft, so that's one method. They could also have Eldar devices that are established to disable aircraft as well (weaponized loftite). And of course when all else fails, they can use basic AA guns to shoot people out of the sky.They could apply whichever method, or others, to any area of the map, depending on which is more natural to the terrain.

    If you head towards a jumping puzzle in the middle of a zone, you would get a warning as you got near. Ideally there would even be a red border shown on your map around it. If you turned back, nothing would happen and you'd go on your way. If you persisted, you would fall epically but safely to the ground, and reactivating your mount would not work until you passed outside the field.

    Problem solved, if perhaps not yet fully implemented. Like Polio.

    The middle bit, when it's just clouds, sure, but if take offs don't get to you than you have no soul.

    Nobody ever said that the game would need an infinite flight ceiling. A couple hundred yards would be plenty (about as high as Throat of the World).

    Only if you choose to. If your goal is to reach the destination, take the easiest path. If your goal is to experience the journry, take the most interesting path. What is important is that you get to choose.

    Well, sure, everyone makes mistakes, but if it was a halfway decent game, you can be sure that that moment of boredom wasn't the result of a dev saying "well, we can do it this way and it's fun, but no, let's pad that out to take three times as long so that it's boring and lame, but it'll kill some of their time."

    No, war is not fun, but this is a game, and games are fun, so war in games should be fun. If you want a super hardcore warfare simulator, there are plenty of games without Pixar bunny girls.
  10. Vaos

    Vaos Cupcake

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    You don’t do them for the view. You do them solely for the challenge. But there are people who do value the view at the top of the mountain quite a bit - the explorer path is tailored to people who love that sense of discovery and taking the time to find ways to see otherwise unseeable things, right? That feeling of breaking into uncharted terrain can be more rewarding than XP or loot. Giving everyone easy access to the highest altitudes would cheapen those vistas at the end of puzzles/mountains/towers, for players like me. Outdoor jumping puzzles wouldn’t feel completely pointless, but climbing higher and higher would have much less meaning.

    So with that in mind, what are your opinions on my suggestion - flying mounts with limited altitude? Mounted players still get convenience/speed/no mobs, but the highest peaks and views are reserved for those who work for them (probably mostly explorers).

    This also seems more realistic for the hover bikes, hover boards and jetpacks you mentioned. Those type of vehicles aren’t really the super high altitude ship type thing.


    Is the issue with "taxi only" that you feel players should be able to fly around at their leisure to explore (as opposed to flight taxi set paths), or that you feel players should have the convenience of taking off and landing at the exact spots they want to (as opposed to flight taxi set start/end points)? Both? Or something I'm not thinking of?
  11. jackashflash

    jackashflash Cupcake-About-Town

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    1. No what I am saying is that max level zones are the final destination. So despite the fact that there are lots of people in the air, there are still lots of people on the ground too.

    2. People only carelessly AFK in the air, because they know it is safe. If flying mounts aren't around, then I and everyone else will do what we did in the past, and go to town to AFK. Unless it is an emergency, then people probably won't be afk'ing in some random spot in the world. Even if some people do, a few deaths from a random bear or player or something will stop that in a hurry.

    I like the idea of having no mounting in combat. That was a good idea. That helps with the PvP issue as well.

    3.

    4. Granted. I thought farmers primarily used the underworld hack to get materials though. Maybe they used this beforehand, but I wasn't aware of it. As another poster said though, sometimes mobs come out of nodes too. So the bot would have to be able to fly, and do basic combat. Or at least have someone to monitor it to reset him after he died.

    5. It might feel smaller, but like I said you already saw most of it anyways. I guess this wouldn't be true if they made a new zone or something. I could only imagine that issue arising with an xpac though, and easily fixed the same way blizzard did.

    6. All they have to do is make content with flying mounts in mind. That might mean making more content, or making distances slightly further, or whatever.
  12. jackashflash

    jackashflash Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is an interesting idea, and the only one I have heard that decently solves the outside jump puzzle crisis. Every game has a max ceiling, so there is no reason that couldn't be kind of low. Maybe just above trees or something.

    At this altitude players would be visible from the ground as well, thus alleviating the issue of the deserted zones.
  13. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, at the end of the day you can't please everyone. "The view" is not the point of the explorer's path. If there are players that choose the explorer's path exclusively for "the view," then maybe they'll be disappointed. I don't really see any way around that. Similarly, if people choose the Soldier's path because they want to be the only class that engages in combat, then maybe they'll be disappointed when other path players also engage in plenty of combat. It's fairly inevitable though.



    There is no "uncharted terrain." Any place you reach, someone's been there before, especially if you aren't playing 24/7 from the second of launch. Even with jump puzzles, if you're the only person doing the puzzle at the time you're doing it then that would be very rare, you'd more likely expect to have 2-3 other people running the puzzle at the same time you are. A new puzzle was recently opened on GW2 and there were about three dozen or more players running it at once.



    I wouldn't particularly mind, it's hardly the worst limitation suggested, I just find it a bit silly and unnecessary. It would also limit their ability to have cool content in the sky that could be reached using air travel. There's an area in GW2 with a sign that says "Goemm's Lab," and an arrow pointing straight up. You look up and see this chain of floating islands. In that game you reach them via teleportal, but in WS I'd like something like that to be reachable by vehicle.



    No reason why they couldn't be.

    Both. I believe that form the "fun" angle, players should be able to zip around under their own control, just as you can wander. Imagine an "open world" MMO in which it consisted only of a number of relatively small "content zones" in which you could run and fight, linked up by miles of "open terrain", but you could not run through this "open terrain," you could only take a train from one content zone to the next. That wouldn't feel very open world to me. Likewise, having flight that only works on rails, they might as well just have teleportals. As for convenience, running from where you are to the nearest taxi, and then from the nearest taxi to where you want to be is a completely unnecessary hassle.
  14. Vaos

    Vaos Cupcake

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    When given a choice, players will overwhelmingly choose the easiest/most efficient option regardless of what’s fun - Greg Street/Chostcrawler always calls it “the Mechenar Syndrome.” So when given an option for mostly unrestricted flight to your destination, almost everyone will take it because it’s so easy and efficient even if they would ultimately have more fun with the "journey" of engaging with the world on the ground.
    Only Carbine gets to decide what the "points" of the explorer path are, and what types of playstyles to cater to/please.

    Yeah, I feel like it could also help the issues people mention about flight shrinking the world and not being immersive, because you’d still have to navigate around particularly tall buildings and mountains, etc. and be more “part of the world” - as opposed to going so high that you’re kind of outside the world just flying above it. But it would still add a lot of the speed/covenience as compared to running through mobs on the ground.
  15. WakeskaterX

    WakeskaterX Cupcake-About-Town

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    Basically this whole thread boils down to people who want unrestricted flying: Who are generally people that haven't experienced the Vanilla => Cata Wow Experience with flying mounts, and then people who HAVE experienced that and express concern about flying mounts and why they break immersion and minimize the world.

    I don't mean they break immersion in the sense of "Flying mounts don't fit in a space game." So stop taking it that way. I mean they break immersion in the sense of: Once you own a flying mount, you can fly anywhere, anytime for any length of time and not pay a single dime for it. Suspension of Disbelief. Also the minimizing the feel of the world. Those are the 2 biggest issues for most people that don't want flying.

    The Pro/Con list is rather weak, but the ideas presented were the point of the thread.

    There ARE a lot of people that don't want flying, this thread is to discuss ways that flying could be changed to address some of those issues. Some of you may think that immersion is not a big deal or that suspension of disbelief doesn't matter, but for a lot of people it does matter. That's why we're discussing it. That's why Carbine isn't planning on having flight right now, because it breaks suspension of disbelief and it shrinks the world. The other pros/cons are mostly filler compared to those 2 concerns.


    This thread is for posting NEW IDEAS and discussing those new ideas. It's not for discussing whether or not W* should have / not have flight. Let's keep it on topic guys before this turns into a flame war (again).

    For those of you posting new ideas, keep it up.
  16. jackashflash

    jackashflash Cupcake-About-Town

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    Idk what suspension of disbelief is supposed to mean, but I know I played WoW since Beta. So, I wouldn't go lumping all pro flight people together as inexperienced with early WoW.

    Also, why are you trying to dictate the discussion? People are free to talk about whatever they want.
  17. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I refuse to be held responsible for other people's lack of self control. It's like those people who whine about how the "normal" mode of a game is "too easy," when there are perfectly good "hard" and "very hard" modes above it that they just can't be bothered to select. Absolutely no sympathy for those people. Just because you can fly from New York to LA doesn't mean you can't road trip it, or even walk it if you feel like it. Don't blame the airline for robbing you of adventure by its mere existence.

    I do not believe that the majority of people, given the option of flight, will choose to use it if it wouldn't be as much fun for them. I firmly believe that if they do choose flight over walking, then it is because they have decided that fun, for them, is in getting to their destination in as little time and hassle as possible, and that they intend to have fun when they get there, rather than in transit.



    And they have, and they made videos about it, and it wasn't about sight seeing.

    Yeah, a lot of the arguments could be solved fairly easily with "there are other games besides WoW out there."



    You've lost me, where is the suspension of disbelief there? That seems entirely natural to the world of wildstar. We have entire BACK YARDS that hover above the planet indefinitely, why can't I find a hover bike that can do the same to my 80lb.-when-wet Aurin?

    Sure, but it's not really relevant to this discussion, since there's nothing immersion or suspension of disbelief-related about flight in this game. It's like arguing in DCUO "well you had me totally on board until you had Superman flying? What nonsense.
  18. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really liked these 3 points in addition I think by adding some sort of planet wide Nexus condition where all low atmosphere flying crafts are limited in how high they can fly would prevent Explorer path exploits, (kind of like exhaustion in other games).

    With a limit on the altitude of flying mounts they can also avoid hurting wpvp by players being equipped with surface to air weapons (which I recall seeing in a in game video). Just make it so the player being shot down takes no fall damage (parachute) so as not to be at a disadvantage when the fight continues after they hit the ground.

    Also would like to see through crafting a feature where you could mount a gun turret to land mounts nothing too powerful that it could be exploited in pve or against players who are un-mounted but just strong enough and specifically for bringing down a within range fleeing enemy player after a bit of a chase (the speeder chase through the Endor forest in The Empire Strikes Back is a good visual example).

    All this pretty much removes the element of being "safe or safer" while mounted and promotes wpvp in cool ways of course none of this would apply on pve servers.

    Didn't read through the whole thread so +1 if these ideas have already been mentioned.
  19. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Carbine is not sure if flying they had in mind would work well. If they were they wouldn't even consider dropping flying. They must have had reasonably equal split internally between people who wanted flying to be included and those who didn't (or they still have).
    Thing is that high attitude flying (outside of on grounded players' attack range) introduce multiple problems to the game but adds very little and whatever it adds doesn't make but can break the game. Almost everything what flying gives can be replaced with some other system which does not break the game. Everything else is probably game braking. All those people who defend flying so much are probably working for Blizz and want to destroy W*.

    Edit: Want some flying?, get speeder/hoover. It flies and it is the same fast (like in Star Wars movie). On top you will have to avoid trees, buildings and other players. The only thing you will be missing is staying out of danger :p
  20. jackashflash

    jackashflash Cupcake-About-Town

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    When did they confirm flying was in, and then remove it due to issues?


    There is only 1 valid concern with flight imo. It streamlines the game. Future content will be able to be beaten quite quickly due to the advantages of flight.

    If, and when, there is an expansion they can just no allow flight until max level again, so no huge problems there really. But it likely does trivialize some of the content. You usually don't complete all the content before you get to max level.

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