Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by WakeskaterX, May 28, 2013.
I like it, it offers creative and individualistic armor sets and options are always a good thing.
I think most people that like transmog like it because they can make things fit in with the world and make their character look good.
As far as "immersion" goes, this doesn't bother me, but yeah when I see people running around in high level gear that looks retarded it bugs me a little (oh your neon pink tube top and neon lime mini skirt are really obsidian plate mail and plate pants?). Not enough to HATE Xmog, but I think it's THOSE people that instill the dislike of Xmog for most of the people against it.
This is just an example of a reason why the stigma exists, and I don't think it'll be that extreme either, I'm just using hyperbole to make a point
I think done right costume tabs / Xmog can work just fine.
I love the Rift system of slotting armor you have in to a tab for looks.
I liked the GW2 dye system but felt it needed a little more. Cant tell you all how many times some parts of armor were linked with other parts of armor that I did not want the same color.
I am the kind of person who will fill his bank with armor and buy armor off the AH for its looks. I spend hours playing with colors and mixing and matching armor to come up with a look I love. I am glad to see WS is allowing us to do this.
To me it is like an extension of character creation. You are picking and molding how your avatar looks. How you want to be represented. If you want to look awesome, unique, do not care, or stand out cause you are in bright pink and are just looking to turn heads is up to you. I think it is great and adds so much more to the enjoyment of a game when I like how my avatar looks.
It is a lil embarrassing though that my gf makes fun of me for playing dress up for hours on end in a video game.
Im ok with Transmog as others have said...awesome looking armor shouldn't just get tossed to the way side for lackluster replacements come expansions.
Warlock Tier 3 is one of the better arguments FOR transmog. One of the funnier jokes I saw in WoW was a picture of a warlock in Plagueheart with the caption "they always walk single file to hide their numbers." Sometimes, the gear sets as designed are just bad.
I voted yes, but after seeing some first-page opinions, I'll alter my opinion to "Yes, but..."
I believe that in instanced, competitive play against other players (Arenas, Rated BGs), you shouldn't be able to transmog. If you can transmog, only allow an "Elite" cosmetic version of that tier's PVP gear. You decide who to attack based on the quality of gear someone is wearing in PVP, and it can actually affect your gameplay not knowing if someone's PVE or PVP-geared. Quick, visual decisions are key in rated PVP.
For non-competitive or non-PVP gameplay, Transmog is great. It prolongs old content (people re-run old raids), makes for more model variety in the world, increases social interaction (people ask where you got that purple dagger), and creates an alternate endgame goal. Pretty much all positive things for an MMO.
Ok. It may look like I honestly couldn't care, but I assure you, that's probably the case.
You shouldn't need to judge other players by their armor. Ideally all players would be on equal footing and only their skill would differentiate them, as imbalanced PvP is just a joke, but even if they do allow for unbalanced PvP you should have a better measure of an opponent's strength than what he has on. There should be like a kill counter or something showing.
But the thing is, a bullet proof vest without the internal padding will stop nothing, while a spaghetti strap tank-top with a bulletproof underlay would stop bullets. It's a sci-fi game and the stat-boosting elements are high-tech in nature, there's no reason why those effects couldn't as easily be applied to one physical appearance rather than another.
I mean, compare these two GW armors, Honor of the Waves armor, or Shadow armor, which of these MUST offer higher stats than the other? For the record, former is endgame gear that only comes in level 80 versions, while the latter is karma gear you can get around level 40+, but that fact is largely arbitrary, it's only that way because a dev chose it to be so and they could easily be reversed in effectiveness. Why should that decision not be in the hands of the player that actually has to wear it?
The game can have temporary shape shifting items in it, like the various potions in GW2, but that should have nothing to do with clothing transmutation.
The Dixie horn is implied.
But what about all the high-end sets that look stupid right out of the box? I mean, most of the pics I've seen of high-end vanilla WoW players offend my sensibilities, and I'm assuming no transmog was involved.
Ok... a bullet prove vest BY DEFINITION has Kevlar inserts. It's not a bullet proof vest without them. Also a tank top with kevlar inserts would look nothing like a tank top. In fact you'd have to have some way to secure the kevlar inserts over your lungs and heart which would stick out of the shirt. Your refutation of my statement is inherently flawed.
I'm all for challenges to my statements, I believe that it makes for good back and forth discussion, but please make sense or use logic if you are going to refute something I write.
But that's my point, If you see someone wearing something like this, you assume that he could take a round to the chest because that looks like a bullet proof vest. But if you take out those inserts, then it's just a vest, and offers no real protection, regardless of how it looks. Likewise, if you put those plates behind a standard t-shirt, it would stop a bullet. The function does not require appearance. Now in real life there are certain limitations to that concept, but in a magic/sci-fi game there are no limits whatsoever. You can make silk that is more protective than titanium, you can make forcefields and strength boosters that fit into a tank top as easily as in a steel breastplate. There is no "appropriate appearance" for any combination of stat boosting effects.
I understand that from a magical persepective but the RL example is flawed. That's the only point I was making. From an RL standpoint, you would know if someone was wearing a tank top that they weren't wearing protection.
In games that don't employ limitations however, you lose immersion. Suspension of disbelief is very powerful. There isn't a perfect answer one way or the other, but if they go too far and things don't quite make sense, that suspension of disbelief is broken and players can FEEL that.
Now, I'm not saying it CAN'T be done in a game, but the little things do matter.
[On the topic of Suspension of Disbelief]
Take, for example, GW2, just to pick on it since it's the kid that's getting bullied this week.
Not everyone might have a problem with it, but for me at least, the dye system breaks immersion.
Why? Well dyes aren't infinite (in RL). It doesn't make much sense to use a dye once and have it forever. There really isn't a way to make it not break immersion while having it be a collectable system. Sure it's convenient and it might not even work with their current system if they had consumable dyes, however, whenever you can re-dye your gear for free (once you unlock them) it reminds you that you are in a game and breaks immersion slightly.
Is it convenient? Yes. Do players like it? Yes. But does it break suspension of disbelief? Slightly.
I believe this is one of the root causes of people that don't like Xmog/Xmute system. At least it is for me. I'm not even an RPer, but I like pretending the world I'm in is real. Small things like that bug me.
I personally highly support transmogrification of gear. Character customization is what makes or breaks an MMO for me, and poor character model options that cannot be adjusted are perhaps the number one thing that can make me quickly drop an MMO. The last thing I want is to spend many hours leveling a character only to have the character become unappealing to me because effective gear just looks bad. I rather prefer to look at my gear as stat blocks and use a fashion system to customize my appearance to my liking.
I personally do not feel that such a thing as character appearance need be so limited to real life examples. Even using such realism, there is some surprisingly standard looking clothing these days that you would never tell was bulletproof. Such technology is only going to get better with time, so I do not gain any sense of disbelief from a character in a futuristic setting where space travel and even teleportation are every day occurrences could have a bulletproof tank top.
Even if such technology did not exist in this game, as long as there was magic it could explain itself. I think of it like playing Dungeons and Dragons where a naked character wearing +8 Bracers of Armor would have just as much defense as another character wearing full plate armor. The character wearing the full plate could then be wearing a Hat of Disguise to appear just as though they were wearing pajamas. Every common person looking at this fully armored character will see nothing more than a person in pajamas. Why? Magic hat. That's the only explanation needed.
Meh, depends on how the dyes work. Could be magic. Could be that unlike chemical dyes, you can apply it and it will change the color you apply it to without being consumed, so you can bottle it back up and use it again and again. Could be the vials are self-filling so once you own one, it can never be emptied. Could be that the point is in unlocking the specific color, but you can duplicate it infinite times once you do. I don't know, they clearly didn't put a lot of effort into explaining how it works, but it's not like it couldn't function exactly as it does and still make perfect sense in a world of magic.
I suspect it comes down more to people who want to get shiny raid loot, and want to be considered bigshots for wearing it, even if it looks silly, rather than loosing out to players that are wearing much more common gear, but wearing it well. I thik there's also the factor of PvP players wanting to easily tell which players will be the easiest to bully, and which to run away from because they might actually pose a challenge.
Having a rainbow colored outfit is going to break my immersion long before having a dye system like GW2... With 1 of the goals in a game like this being relating to and/or caring about your character I would never dress with each peace of gear being a dif random color by choice.
WildStar is a game. Not only that, but it is a future space science fiction game. What is to say that there could not be something that allows you to change colors of clothing in the future? Maybe you need some kind of color crystal and the recoloring system can forever more duplicate that color onto things so long as it has that crystal. There is any number of ways to make something like this fit into this kind of game.
I would also say it is about as believable as anything ells in this game.
As for PvP and looking at armor to pick your target.(I do love me some PvP)
My opinion is they should not take away the armor skin switch in PvP.
If some guy wants to go lone wolf and pick on people weaker than himself for easy kills, he deserves every thing coming to him when he goes after a bigger fish on accident.
Something that can not be hidden and can be looked at is HP. For a quick guess at the quality of gear having a general idea of HP pool ranges and going off that can help. Better gear tends to net more HP in PvP.Also if you see somebody ripping everybody a new 1 you have a hint to the quality of the player.
So long as you can tell what class the enemy is, which is as easy as looking at the weapon I see no problem.
i like transmog mostly because it lets me not only stand out from the crowd,but its amazing to look around see other peoples transmog suits and then get new ideas to make mine improve.
i hope they wont do the "Jackass" looking things through,dressing up with a large fake nose n glasses takes something away from the overall feel of the games "Heroic" nature.
Yeah, I mean if we're talking Wildstar lore I can write up a perfectly good explanation that would functionally mimic GW2's right here:
In the town (or in your house, or even a portable device), you have a "Chromalock" that can nanoscopically alter the way light reflects across the surface of any object to produce any color (or reflectivity) imaginable. Unfortunately, it has a very poor imagination and can only think of a couple dozen different basic colors. But there is hope! Scattered around the world you may be able to find (or purchase, or craft) special "pangalactic tone cards," which contain the coding for new and different colors unimaginable by our rather limited personal colorizing gizmo. There are hundreds of different tone cards to collect, and each one permanently unlocks that color in your Chromalock's database, allowing you to apply it at will.
Why are many of the transmo people so die-hard stubborn about transmo being incorporated in 1 flat-out fashion? You do realize not everyone likes transmo, me being one of them. Despite my disdain for transmo I offered 2 very realistic alternatives for incorporating it.
I'm not against character customization, or a person's "fashion", I just don't like the way this is done via transmog. As said before I'm totally down with dyes, and anyone wearing gear they like aesthetically, as long as your actually wearing that gear.
If it was up to me, I wouldn't put it in the game at all, yet I am willing to meet the other camp halfway. What's wrong with an item that activates your transmo? It doesn't even have to be hard to get, or a checkbox to toggle player wardrobe visibility in the options? Surely this pleases the most people because these alternatives provide more even choices to the playerbase.
Transmo does have negatives, just to name a few:
2.) Removing personal value to new gear, with transmo essentially brand new raid gear just turns into nothing more than higher numbers on your character sheet
3.) PvP relevance
Stop being so selfish and try to come up with a resolution rather than sitting there pouting wanting it 100% your way.
What's immersive about wearing giant shoulder pads with 10 foot long blood spikes sticking out of them
"nothing more than higher numbers on your character sheet" is the definition of new gear, nobody grinds for new gear because it looks good, but because it improves your character. Hell, I remember a lot of times in WoW where I had to upgrade into gear that looked worse. Letting me keep the look of the old gear while improving my stats lets me keep "personal value" on a set of gear as long as I like.
"Transmo" as you continue to call it, even though it's actually a wardrobe system, is turned off in PvP.
If you don't like Transmog then nobody is forcing you to use it on your own outfit, we just aren't ceding you any ability to tell us how we can use it on our own characters. There's no reason for us to compromise with you on our own appearance.
I'll repeat again, once you transmog the gear it IS the actual gear. You ARE "actually wearing that gear." If you take a pink dress and transmog it with a plate armor, it's not "a plate armor that appears to be a dress," it's "a dress that offers as much protection as plate armor." It is what it is, it's not "pretending" anything.
Because it can shut off. Ok, let's go down this rabbit hole for a second. I would be fine with an "item that activates the transmog" IF it was A. reasonably affordable, B. NEVER shut off once activated, under any circumstance, and C. could never be disabled or ignored by outside sources. If it's something that I have to activate every time I log in, or that shuts off when I die or whatever, then no deal whatsoever. They can have "temporary shape change" items in the game too, those can be fun to play with, but it's no replacement for having true item appearance modification.
This is really the key factor, why spend all that time getting an armor set you love the look of, just to have to give it up when it's no longer your best set...
For the argument of "It's not your character, so why should you care." :
Just look at the RL example of HOAs and why they exist. Or look at why RP servers have strict naming policies. Both are things that really don't have to do with your character directly yet influence the way you see the real world / game world (respectively).
Just a counterpoint. I don't really see that argument as being valid, other people influence your experience, that's part of what an MMO is. So people DO have a right to care.