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Amp disscussion from Livestream

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Migrayne, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. Migrayne

    Migrayne New Cupcake

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    So the AMP screens they showed in the live stream seem a bit too specialized. You have to spec for PvP offense or PvP defense or your just normal assault or support.

    I know they mentioned having loadouts for your LAS, but they need to have one for AMPs so that you can PvP.

    They said respeccing AMP's will have a growing cost. This would mean you can either spec for normal gameplay or spec for PvP.

    Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
  2. Ragx

    Ragx Cupcake

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    They also said that they had AMP loadouts. Remember that the UI is in progress (and threads such as this one, no offense intended, are why the UI team didn't want the UI to be shown).

    I hope that the escalating cost is capped somewhere though and does not increase ad infinitum, otherwise the character will decay in a way.
    Malorak, Ianpact and Roda like this.
  3. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    This system needs AMP loadouts, Period. Otherwise i was on the verge on screaming like a little girl when i saw ability tiering and AMP's because i totally forgot they promised us a talent-tree like feature :D
  4. Migrayne

    Migrayne New Cupcake

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    Posts like this spark discussion. I am not making any bad remarks about the UI or its look. I am clearly questioning the mechanics of how it will work. Having to choose to spec in the PvP lines is a major choice. If their are not enough points to go down multiple paths then PvP will be hindered if you need to spec in the regular paths for normal gameplay.


    None of those points have anything to do with the UI not being finished. The UI look has nothing to do with the mechanics of how the system works.
    Grimnar40k likes this.
  5. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    It was said there will be loadouts, if it indeed was required of you to completely respec each time it would be problematic.
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  6. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yep. And this seems to not fit direction 'speccing' was taking so far. Due to significant cost(even ignoring part about it growing(altough fact that it's growing indicates it's somewhat significant at some point) or possibility of respeccing only at specific places in the world), it means you'll have to dedicate yourself to playing only single role at maximum efficiency. That could be relatively fine, as people usually do just that, but there is also split between pvp and pve here.

    There is also potential issue with hybrid/utility 'trees' utility skills by their nature are situational, but when you know what to expect you can adjust LAS before encounter. "Hard" specs like AMPs for utility are usually much less usefull than speccing for specific role, "somewhat usefull" in two encounter vs "somewhat usefull"/"few percent better performance" in all encounters.
    Similar thing with hybrids, altough needs more data. Depending on how need for tanks/healers and their off versions changes between encounters, it could be viable to have dedicated 'off', but more likely it'll just be player fully specced in his role with changed what can be changed for free. On the other hand, hybrids could be good for soloing.

    I understand desire for "meaningfull" choices in character progression that you can't just change with 2 clicks, but this seems too... atomized? divided? Especially with all other "spec" systems being changeable at any time. Not as much problem with decision to make player spec for single thing, as with mixed signals "change most things whenever you want"/"here we'll make you stick to your chosen role and playstyle".

    It guess we still know too little about it, like, how many loadouts you can have, how much points you get, how many trees can you max out, how much it really affects your performance.
  7. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Awesome, major choices are great for the game, so are tough choices, welcome to Wildstar.
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  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Looks like respeccing often will be a norm in WildStar similar to how it was in WoW.
  9. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Not really i know of other games that allow you spec per setup, i'm sure you can think of others also.
    Those also had an increasing cost per spec but you had a few load outs to your disposals.

    Of course if one of the many developers floating around here could acknowledge us to allow multiple setups in both LAS and AMP's. However it would seem illogical to do so as we have different gear setups and LAS setups and several different meta games, that just for PvP and PvE it would be really an issue to go and respec and so far Carbine doesn't appear to be in the market of limiting players in such ways.


    Can't comment on that as i need to know more about what Hybrid actually holds, they don't have to be so heavily based on specific situations they can simply be a mixture of dps and support, you could very well use a hybrid build in that matter as a tank, and that wouldn't be based on your environment but on your team mates setups. For example.
  10. Ragx

    Ragx Cupcake

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    I was not saying that you made bad remarks. I was saying that the developers made a mistake by showing us the UI at that stage and that your reaction to it is just logical. Again, they said you will have a few loadouts you can switch between, so you probably only have to reset the AMPs if you really need to change them for your current spec. I can see them doing 4 loadouts max for DPS, Heal/Tank, PvP DPS, PvP Heal/Tank.

    Except that the UI is directly attached to the mechanics of the game. You will not be able to choose your AMPs without a UI, just as you won't be able to switch loadouts if the UI doesn't have them in some form. So, in a way, a good chunk of mechanics is made possible by the UI, while the UI exists because of mechanics; tell me again that there is no correlation.
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  11. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    LASs, AMPs, DDTs, LOLs wtf is going on here
  12. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    Are we going to automatically assume we're not gonna have enough points to spec in multiple trees or that if we pick one we'll be locked out of the others? Because if we are, I can totally see a problem.

    Otherwise, I think we should wait til Beta pops up and we can actually test it out to see how it works and give Carbine feedback before we over-analyze.
    Xlugon Pyro likes this.
  13. Wardin Novascrub

    Wardin Novascrub New Cupcake

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    There's a big factor they did not discuss, which is how many AMP points you can attain vs. cost to fill a tree. Maybe you can max out 1.5 sextants, maybe its 3. That gives them a lot of opportunity to balance versatility against specialization.
  14. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    LAS is your action bar (hot bar).
    AMP is your "talent tree", well more a sextant divided up in assault, hybrid, assault, utility PvP off. and PvP Def.

    DDT is new to me however. Unless it's DD's and that's the more accurate acronym for damage dealers instead of the DPS acronym used.
  15. NabeShogun

    NabeShogun Cupcake

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    Personally I quite liked that UI interface ...

    As for the PvP concern then spec for PvP or for raiding (or being a solo player in an mmo - weirdo) ... want to do both? Have 2 toons ...
  16. Anorissa

    Anorissa Cupcake

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    You can spec for both PVP and raiding can't you? After all, Hybrid, PVP Offense and PVP Defense are side trees.

    The man three trees are Assault (dps), Support (tanking/heals) and Utility. You can't put any points into the PvP or Hybrid trees unless you have some points in the main 3.

    Here's how it looks to me: If you put points in both Assault and Support, you unlock the Hybrid tree. If you put points in Assault and Utility, you unlock the PVP Offense tree. If you put points in both Support and Utility, you unlock the PVP Defense tree. If you put points in all three main tree's, you unlock all three side trees.
  17. Vermana

    Vermana Cupcake-About-Town

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    DISCLAIMER TIIIIME

    *Fireworks*
    (I know we don't know much about AMPs, so no flaming based on the fact that I'm stating things without evidence. This is my opinion on what we know. Deal with it plox D: )



    As seen on the livestream. There are both "Regular AMPs", namely Assault, Support, Utility, and Hybrid, and "PvP AMPs", namely PvP Offense and PvP Defense.

    Is this a good idea? The Stream Devs never addressed this at all, they only looked at the Assault AMPs in particular.


    Yes, there is already PvP Gear in WildStar that gives PvPers blatant bonuses over non-PvPers or PvPers who haven't earned that gear yet (Though I shouldn't say "earned" unless PVP gear is awarded through Elo or something. More like "grinded for") but why should people need to stat their AMPs for PvP whenever they want to PvP? That makes very little sense.

    First of all, Carbine would be making a HUGE mistake if there is no easy, free, instant way to respec your AMPs if you're going to have "PvP AMPs". That means every time you want to Queue for battlegrounds, you have to pay to Respec or redo all your AMPs again for your PvP Build. No more easy Queuing. If you can't Respec, that's even worse. Say goodbye to Casual PvP, because anyone that doesn't have their AMPs specced out for PvP will fail miserably. And if you specced for Assault or Support or whatever for Questing or Raiding, and want to PvP? Well, have fun Rerolling.

    I doubt that AMPs will be irreversable. But I'm not sure if they'll be easily changed, it might be a WoW system where you have to pay a fee every time you want to respec your AMPs. With PvP AMPs, that would be a massive failure.
    On top of this, WHY in the WORLD would you want to make the gap between high and low level characters, and high and low geared characters, and PvP players vs. PvE players, that much bigger?

    And ON TOP OF THAT, you're narrowing down the number of PvP builds to freaking TWO. That's horrible! Hoooooorrrriblleeeeeeeeeeeeee!! That's enough to turn people away from WildStar as a whole! If there was one thing Carbine could do to screw up their awesome streak of cool features, it would be this! Removing diversity in PvP though a talent system that gave boosts to PvP only.
    Want to PVP? Good luck unless you're fully specced in either PvP Offense, or PvP Defense. Or possibly utility. Those other three trees and the awesome stuff they give? Yeah throw those in the trash. You are essentially removing half of the skills and passives from the game in PvP, and that's just dumb dude.
    What if I'm a Hybrid player and want to use my Hybrid build in PvP? Awww, too bad. Can't. Because I can't spec into PvP Offense or PvP Defense if I want to use the Hybrid Tree. Now I don't have l33t PvP-centric spells and +25% damage against players. Guess I can't play PvP.


    Yes I know I may be wrong. But this is a plea to Carbine JUST IN CASE you guys managed to screw this part of your game up, because I want you guys to succeed.
    Don't put PvP AMPs into your game!!! But if you do, for the love of God keep the other AMPs viable in PvP too!
  18. Sneakybuffalo

    Sneakybuffalo Cupcake-About-Town

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    They are going to have to have AMP specs that can be switched between. It doesn't make any sense for them to promote the flexibility of the LAS and then shoot it in the foot by being restrictive about AMP specs. It just doesn't make sense and doesn't fit with their philosophy for the game. Carbine is smart so it'll work out.

    As for the respeccing increases in cost bit from the stream. So does WoW's respeccing.
  19. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    If you want to make PvP part of the game and not just a lobby system, to have some form of PvP in.

    Yes they are a good idea.

    Asking PvE role specific ones to be tailored to PvP needs, now that is a bad idea.

    For the rest your doom scenario is based on a lot of assumptions.
    "casual PvP needs them" No indication is given to do some casual PvP that you need high PvP gear or talents it is even so there's a rating system in place to prevent you from being paired with or against such players of higher dedication to PvP.

    AMP's can be respeced it was said so in the stream you now got your AMP PvP information from, we don't know regards to load outs options or the respec cost.

    There will always be a gap between a high level and low level player, so this statement makes no sense considering this is what RPG's do have and will continue to do. As character progression is part of it's strength and core design pillar.

    So yes, i find your tantrum to be a too much on the dramatic side of things where would you have re-read it yourself once you might have edited and prevented a head injury caused by a facepalm.
    Domi Dayglow and teh_ninjaneer like this.
  20. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    already a discussion with 16 replies to it right at the top of the page, how did you miss this?

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