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Amp disscussion from Livestream

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Migrayne, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Good job avoiding my one actual question and only making reference to your so-called Disclaimer that you placed at the front of this thread.

    Maybe you should read Carbine's Disclaimer before making posts like these. Otherwise your entire thread is worthless.
    Livnthedream likes this.
  2. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think you make a huge mistake considering Assault/Defense/Utility/Hybrid as PvE-only trees, also we don't know how much trees or even point will be available to us.

    Even if it is the case, what is the big deal? It is another mean to separate PvP from PvE and i think it s a good thing, you shouldnt be able to even hope to kill a pvp player as a pve player in pve spec and pve gear.


    Anyway hasty conclusions are bad.
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  3. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    We also spent years standing around at PvP Battlemasters jumping around in circles waiting on queues... That wasn't fun so they changed it to get people out in the world playing the game. Things change. Hopefully for the better.
  4. CptElendi

    CptElendi Cupcake-About-Town

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    You missed my point.
  5. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Before anyone can make statements like "it halves the amount of viable builds" We need to know how many viable builds there are in the first place.

    From where i am sitting the offensive and defensive PvP tree doesn't not mean it rules out the other trees just by being there.
    But even if we follow that train of thought and look at it with a very narrowed view and assume that upper part is PvE and the lower part is PvP it doesn't decrease the amount of viable builds.

    Because if they wouldn't exist you would half the tree, creating the exact same amount of "viable" builds using that odd line of thinking you're using to determine the current amount of viable builds.


    Conclusion when balanced the current system offers more builds not less, speaking of viable without knowing how many AMP's we receive in ratio to levels and level restrictions on AMP trees.

    Or to put it in simple words, the amount of points you get might be larger than the points you need to max out your desired tree due to level restrictions put on higher parts in the tree, creating a spare pool of points usable on other trees.
    We also don't know their strength, how much they add cause right know all i noticed in the offensive tree was the higher up ones give you PvP power and the defensive one is acrobats.

    From other games using similar systems we know that despite it having a PvP stat, i never is by universal rule the stat to stack in PvP but i'm really not going to into detail on this as i can write a whole page on what elements to consider when gearing for PvP on a game we know very little and is constantly undergoing balance changes.

    I also noticed "commanding presence" in the hybrid tree, what sounds like either an active or passive defensive or offensive group wide / AOE buff, what still has a role in PvP.

    I also spotted "stance dancer", what tells me it gives you a buff of kind or reduces the penalty/cd on swapping stances what again is something i for see being useful in PvP but on a solo level.

    And i noticed "haste" in the utility tree. What again can ranged from a running speed buff to an attack speed buff again either solo or group wide.

    Also, if you speculate on stuff and claim to really have no clue how it turns out don't be surprised that people will call you out on it, especially when formulated that you do believe it to be so, without doubt.
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  6. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    A double post but for the sake of not lumping it in with my already larger wall of text.(not like i need a higher post count anyway)

    To throw you a small bone, the only restricting factor i've seen during that whole stream was
    that you cannot spend points in the trees that don't have a lower base, so PvP power and defensive and hybrid and you need to spend points in the branches next to them.

    If you look at the AMP you see 3 different color parts, 3 tiers.
    So to actually unlock PvP power, you need spend points in either assault or utility and to open up amp's in PvP defense, you need to spend points in utility or support.

    I keep the option open that it might be so that it doesn't matter where you spend points and as long you spend n-points in tier 1 all tier 2 opens up. While in the stream they said in "spend in the branches next to them" to open them up. If that's to be taken literal or not.

    Actually it seems i didn't throw you a bone, but i just reaffirmed that PvP builds will exist out of a combination of what you define as "PvE trees" and "PvP trees".
    It also confirms that the developers will also not give us the PvP trees and the hybrid tree from the start as they only unlock in Tier 2.

    To do some quick speculation;
    Knowing they showed the character having 15 points at level 20. We can speculate you get 1 point per level from level 5 on wards (the level up screen also pointed out you gained +1 power point)
    And knowing that each Tier 1 section has 8 where of 3 in total, it seems highly unlikely you'll get PvP points at early levels or even mid levels.

    As they also spoke of each AMP costing a different amount of points on their stream they all appeared to cost one so that's still due for changes as it's obviously the default value, knowing the tool tips are empty it's far from done.

    And it appears that i even forgot about AMP's that require you to find items in the world to obtain. The more powerful the rarer they become and they can be traded and sold.

    Before any shouts source, it starts around somewhere 30-35 minutes in the stream.
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  7. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    At the 34 min point Hugh Shelton states that you will be able to save your LASs, Tiers, and Amps, and that they are talking about letting us save our gear.
  8. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Milestones was the "new" take on character customization, but it didn't work out, so we get talent trees. Unless the choices are permanent, there are no major choices, just costs for min-maxing based on the situation. Respec costs are another money sink. We don't know whether it is a significant cost endgame, a nominal fee endgame, or the multi-spec options we might have.

    Cookie-cutter specs would happen no matter the system. PVP talents are a good thing to be able to help balance PVP separate from PVE. If you have no PVP talents, than every single talent change could have unnecessary PVE implications. Not saying that there won't be some overlap and some unwanted impact, but those talents can help to prevent that.
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  9. CptElendi

    CptElendi Cupcake-About-Town

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    People keep speaking about pvp offense and pvp defense.... but you all forgot about the hybrid tree that work the same way that pvp offense and pvp defense work. You have to spend point in other tree before unlocking it. So, logically, hybrid is probably a mix of pvp offense and pvp defense.
  10. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    No.


    In a more serious way, hybrid is, as the name points out, a mix between offense and defense, an offtank tree, i could see it's use in PvP especially in arenas but it s definitely not a PvP only tree.
  11. CptElendi

    CptElendi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well you can not be 100 % about this lmao. I said probably, you are using definitely...but we both don't know much about it.
  12. Sarpadon

    Sarpadon New Cupcake

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    Well I will have to disagree I think we know enough to say that hybrid has nothing to do with PvP. In the warrior livestream they used hybrid as an example of secondary sectons. They said you needed to put points both in assault and support to unlock it. These are PvE specs so Hybrid is more a PvE spec and I would be very surprised if it is a viable spec for PVP since to put amps in this spec would mean that you would be putting much less amps in Utility, PVP offence and PVP defence (these seem to be the more PvP oriented sectons).
  13. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    I know what they said on the stream live directly into my hears...
  14. Tonks

    Tonks Cupcake

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    After much harassment of Carbine employees at NYCC they gave in and let me in on a few nice little PvP tidbits and more pertinent to this conversation the AMP system. Said anonymous tipster gave me a quick run down of design philosophies and how subject to change the AMP system in particular was with the 6 spokes. So public service announcement: Don't read into the current details of the system too much. Likely we won't see the basics change of node based unlocks but the split is very up in the air.

    Also the AMP system will have effective "specs" and i believe the live stream confirmed this as well besides increasing cost for taking out individual points. Their attitude of being able to switch between dps and healing/tanking would be right out the window without that.
  15. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    After looking at the divisions from the livestream (Assault, Support, Hybrid, Utility, PvP Offense, PvP Defense) it puts things in perspective. Like an organizational system used for development and the fact they stressed that it was very rudimentary at this point. I can see them developing talents and using the current divisions to classify them. Then move then around. Such as merging PvP offensive with Assault or PvP Defense with Support. We will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't expect anything remotely final until well after the new year and probably not a full reveal until maybe a month before launch during open beta.

    Yes, this kind of concerns me too. It does seem like it would funnel a Spellslinger into either DPS or Support as the game progresses. Seems like something that we'll need to see more of the actual talents in the tree or more people will be leaning towards the hybrid tree. Which is probably what I will do with my main character as things progress.
  16. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    You'll be able to do some cross roles that's why the hybrid tree is there, i don't believe they ever stated you would be able to successfully tank and dps or heal and dps for that matter.

    There needs to be a balance, a handicap for going spread on two trees. Otherwise everyone would go hybrid as it would offer the best of both worlds making it "no choice" either as going hybrid would be the no brainer way.
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  17. Darkace

    Darkace Cupcake

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    Good answer. Well put AcidBaron. Thats exactly the impression I was under as well.
  18. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I think we'll see hybrid pull in a lot more Control role type abilities/stats. At least that's what I'm hoping for in general.
  19. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Thanks



    In dissecting the hybrid tree from the warrior, i noticed it being more "group" and "solo aid "buffs by speculating on the name and buffs that would aid you in swapping between roles quickly. As "stance dancer" will most likely reduce the CD on your stance swap.

    Will know for certain once they actually add tool tips and show it again but pretty certain it will be that way. I don't think they'll add too much CC in the hybrid trees, that would pigeonhole it too much in a must have for "pvp" situations, although that might fall more under the the utility section.
  20. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Since they pointed out that a Warrior loses all his kinetic energy when changing stances, I assume that "stance dancer" will allow you to keep a portion (maybe up to 50%) of your kinetic energy when you change. I think this would reflect the hybrid nature and let someone who needs to quickly change from a damaging role into a sudden off-tank to begin doing his job instead of waiting on his energy to build up.

    Knowing how people like to play, if this is how "stance dancer" works then I imagine that most people will believe this is essential for every Warrior build, even if they are playing pure tank.

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