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Are you Casual or Hardcore?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by TuxedoMask, Dec 19, 2013.

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Which would you describe yourself as? (Pick 1)

  1. Casual PvE Player (Some Raiding if you have time)

    46.2%
  2. Casual PvP Player (Some Arena if you have time)

    4.3%
  3. Hardcore PvE Player (Push HM Content)

    23.7%
  4. Hardcore PvP (Push Ratings)

    25.8%
  1. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    i dont think thats what hardcore means to most people. granted, its subjective, but ... i dont think most people associate hardcore people with people that play a lot and get carried through dungeons. I think most people would make a distinction.

    im not implying that everyone that calls themselves hardcore has "skill", but to me someone who is hardcore is someone who contributes to the progression of the guild, or pvp team, or at the very least is the kind of person that always has a high level of solo / achievement progress.

    simply playing a lot isn't hardcore, imo.
  2. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    but what you say hardcore is , is gotten through time played. you can also be hardcore and suck at the game and get carried.
    i dunno. its what you decide to believe im just saying it had a different definition when i first saw it coming out to describe gamers.
  3. TuxedoMask

    TuxedoMask Cupcake

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    Well, getting a HM kill in a raid after things have been nerfed 30% after 6months isn't hardcore.
    As far as skill or if someone "sucks" or not, that's based on a lot of different things. I could be the best Shadow Priest in WoW, great rotation and managing cds and refreshing dots when things proc etc etc but if I am less geared than others or if (especially in WoW) Shadow priest is gimped via nerfs or doesn't scale well and Fire or Arcane Mage is seen as the best or just does insane damage, that has nothing to do with skill.

    I don't use the term of Skill and the whatnot when talking about a Hardcore player because there isn't a real way to determine skill in a lot of MMO's when we are talking pve, although Wildstar does seem like they want to make this more of a Skill game that is measurable instead of just learning mechanics.

    Hardcore pvers doesn't mean they are the best players, it just means they have more ambition when it comes to the game. They don't want to push content after its been nerfed to easy mode, it's about the challenge of performing in the group and also measuring how effective your raid team is when comparing to others.

    There's a reason why sites like WorldofLogs exists

    The misconception is that if someone refers to themselves as "Hardcore player" in a MMO, that it is something having to do with skill. Now, are some slight exceptions to the rules, like if you take for instance a Guild like Method who may find an unorthodox way to take down a HM to get a World/Realm 1st or whatever then in a way yes that is skillful but that is the exception and not the norm
  4. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    This whole thread is based on different ways of thinking about two terms, terms that mean different things to different people who think in different ways. Those differences will never change so this entire thread is pointless.

    I for one, agree that the word casual should belong to those who login for awhile, quest, do some dailies, maybe PVP a bit, do a few dungeons, maybe raid IF they can find a guild group, and if not, meh, that's ok, logout and go to bed.

    As far as hard core, well to me, those are the ones who are actively raiding regularly during the week and trying for the best gear, whether it's 20 or 40 man raiding. I would say that if these active raiding guilds are raiding, then they are trying and whether they get a server first or not means squat as far as if they are hard core or not. Hard core players try for many things, not just server firsts. Gear being the main thing.

    But again, this is just my opinion, one person out of thousands who all think differently about what these terms mean. Sure we can have a discussion, but when it turns into arguing over something that we'll never resolve, it's pointless.
    Destian likes this.
  5. Dalgrimar

    Dalgrimar Cupcake

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    Hardcore pvp till the bone!
  6. Agent Drew

    Agent Drew Cupcake-About-Town

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    All you so called "hardcore" gamers really need to learn your places. You claim to know what it means to be hardcore, but allow me to point you to some important links.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Two-...t-Gamers-Have-Died-Becouse-Of-WoW-11821.shtml

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/07/18/video-gamer-dies-after-playing-40-hours-straight/

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/08/01/xbox-gamer-dies-blood-clot-after-marathon-session/

    Accept your filthy casualness and pray that you may one day understand what it truely means to be hardcore like these fellows were.

    *WARNING: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. SERIOUSLY GO OUTSIDE OR SOMETHING*
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  7. Laban

    Laban Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hardcore PvP'er since DAoC, haven't been able to play any game that doesn't have good PvP since then.
  8. Destian

    Destian Cupcake-About-Town

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    I see "hardcore" purely as the amount of time someone invests into something. Attempting to set any other standard of logic doesn't work because it's all subjective beyond that.

    The number of hours someone pours into something is a far better measure because an hour is universal.

    For example, someone who plays 22 hours of solitaire each day is a hardcore solitaire player. It doesn't matter if they win or lose as it's only a measurement of how much time they pour into it.

    The terms you're looking for beyond that are something along the lines of "skilled" and "unskilled".
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  9. Bastille

    Bastille Cupcake

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    Definitely casual. I just have a hard time investing in something that has only negative effects on every other aspect of my life. Knowing that I could've practiced music/read a book/taken a class or something instead of the daily 4-6hr MMO grind is brutal after a while.

    That being said, I will absolutely go through phases of semi-hardcore when I find a good guild or a playstyle I enjoy. Never hardcore, though. I haven't stepped foot in a heroic raid a single time in the 5+ years I played WoW.
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  10. TuxedoMask

    TuxedoMask Cupcake

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    Your wrong and I've already said like 15times why.
    Time played in a MMO because MMO's require time to play, it's not a FPS or something like that. Just getting to max level in WS the devs say are planning to make it something like 120hrs of playtime. So sorry but time played is what all players of an MMO must do.
    Skill or Unskilled, uhh no, that's more subjective then anything.

    Hardcore PvE player = Downing the hardest Content, quickly, and working well with a team.

    Playing a MMORPG is an investment of Time, all of us are required to put in time to play if we want to hit certain goals (max level, max crafting, etc). Playing a Long session, doesn't make you hardcore, and dying IRL from playing 2 days straight doesn't make you hardcore it just means you are stupid and have no friends.

    I just want to point out that a Hardcore PvE player can spend months on a Boss, I'm not joking either, if you haven't ever wiped continuously on the same boss for at least 100 attempts, don't even bother trying to bring up time played. That determination alone is enough to show the difference. People now can't even stand wiping once on a boss, that's not hardcore at all it doesn't matter if you were raiding for 5 hours that day. Hardcore raiders raid for the exact same time and a lot of times they spend all that time on the SAME BOSS! That's a huge deal
  11. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Am I hardcore if I wait for the Youtube video of the most recent raid/boss battle to be released, follow it to a tee, and collect my loot?

    Because that's what most people who claim to be "hardcore" actually do.

    Originality in MMOs has been lost on both sides, developer and player. Many guilds will tell their members to "watch the video" rather than experience things firsthand.

    I would think that part of being hardcore would be to dive right in and see if you can win the fight without having prior knowledge.
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  12. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    The internet has taken that away unfortunately, I would love to "dive right in without prior knowledge"....as long as you absolutely guarantee me that every raider in the game will do the same thing, otherwise, they will have an advantage in competing for server or world ranks.

    Edit - I'd also point out that on occasion this still does happen, in situations where the guild might defeat a boss early in the raid night, and has not had the chance to "read up" on the next one, will not waste time and rather go ahead and dive right in for the rest of the night and try and work out a strategy for at least the first phase.
    teh_ninjaneer likes this.
  13. Destian

    Destian Cupcake-About-Town

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    There is no stable gaming definition of what hardcore actually means because each game has a different set of variables one might consider.

    As for your discussion of time put in, you're missing the point.

    Yes, obviously everyone puts time into an MMO, but how much time over how short of a period? 2 hours a week? 16 hours a day? And when they're NOT playing the game, are they spending time looking up information on the game?

    Time invested (be it in game or out of game) makes the most sense in my mind because we can measure that. Regardless of their success, if someone puts 15 hours a day into a game, I'd call them a hardcore player of that game.

    And speaking outside of MMOs, can there be hardcore lovers of other things? Pokemon? Solitaire? Golf? Gardening?

    I don't think the word "hardcore" implies a level of success, just a level of dedication, and most online definitions of the word seem to agree.

    First of all, for your consideration...

    sub·jec·tive
    səbˈjektiv/
    adjective
    adjective: subjective
    1.​
    based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
    "his views are highly subjective"

    Second, no, it's completely NON-subjective because we have metrics of success that can determine skill.

    For example, if there is a difficult raid encounter, one so hard that most players will give up before ever managing to complete it, you can call players who DO complete it SKILLED.

    If there's a player who frequently wins 2v1s and 3v1s in PvP (without a massive gear advantage), we would probably call them a skilled player.
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  14. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm I too late for the show to complain about that poll?
  15. TuxedoMask

    TuxedoMask Cupcake

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    Measuring "skill" in a Raid isn't possible, the Raid is a Group, and determining who is skilled at DPS(or Tank/Heal) is silly because there are nerfs and buffs and always some classes that just scale better than other. We can all point to that 1 class during a xpac and say how massively OP they were, or look at a class and see how gimped they were. So it's pretty subjective to single out 1 player in a raid for whatever reason, and ignore things like how that class scales or even the mechanics of a fight.

    So what happens when no guilds completely that Raid? lol there are still not a lot of guild that have cleared HM SoO, there were only 3% of all guilds cleared stuff like NAxx, so all those guilds who got stuck at LK HM and btw just wanna point out that nobody downed LK HM until after he was nerfed, so that means that all those guilds suck or does it mean that the boss was overtuned? Or was it exactly what it was suppose to be? Skill can't be measured, you can say this guild is the best because they have realm firsts but what if someone just says Hey I don't care about Realm/server first, I think they are the best cause of X reason, and that happens all the time. I can say that X player is the Best Tank in the game because of X, and you know what? That is subjective and there will be people who say no X player is the best because they did X.


    lol 2v1 or 3v1 in pvp we call them a skilled player? When we actually have ratings in pvp that show who are the higher ranks and not. Hilarious, let's also ignore that some classes are much stronger than others in pvp and then lets also ignore that many of those entertaining 2v1 pvp vids you watch are people fighting folks that have no idea what they are doing, most of those people making the videos understand that they should win and they say stuff on the description like "This is for entertainment, and not to show skill" yadda yadda but yeah I'm trying hard not to talk <REDACTED> to you for saying something like this but I don't think you have any clue what you are talking about.
  16. Perigon

    Perigon Cupcake

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    I decided to google ' define hardcore gaming' and see what came up.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_gaming

    ''Hardcore gamers extend gaming into their lifestyle and may represent the stereotypical “game geek”. They are frequent purchasers of games, prefer to expend significant time on games, and are more likely to try to "master" their games by completing as many objectives as possible. ''

    Hardcore gaming seems to be mostly defined as the amount of time spent in the game and completing as much as possible no matter how long it takes. Which is what i've always thought it was, and pretty much everybody i know thinks it is.
    IIT
  17. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    this makes me wonder ... is there a way to ignore threads on this forum?

    and honestly, were using wikipdia to define things now? ...
  18. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Nope. But it is possible to ignore those who refuse to accept tons of evidence against their chosen belief.
  19. Destian

    Destian Cupcake-About-Town

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    While I agree that, yes, there can be OP classes here and there, it's entirely commonplace for GOOD players to outshine other players, even if those other players are playing the OP classes and the good player is playing a class considered "UP".

    I'd say it was overtuned, then.

    The best WoW guilds in the world who compete for world firsts are not filled with bad players. On the contrary, they're filled with players who know how to squeeze EVERY LAST BIT of potential out of their classes, and yes, THAT takes skill.

    Ergo, using in-game challenges as a metric of skill is very much a possibility.

    If a player knows their class well enough to outmaneuver and defeat multiple competent opponents in PvP (be it world PvP or otherwise), yeah, I'd call them fairly skilled.

    Just FYI, you can literally purchase arena rating in WoW by having better players carry you.

    The most successful PvPers are going to be the ones who know their class AND their opponents' classes. They'll know the telegraphs to look for, the big cooldowns their opponents will likely use and they know the best way to avoid taking damage from those classes while maximizing their damage output. And yes, that takes SKILL.

    Ultimately, what are you trying to say, here? That skill means nothing in MMOs and will mean nothing in Wildstar? That only gear matters and the accomplishment of a world first just means that raid group had the best gear?
  20. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    How about the Urban Dictionary which has 15 definitions for Hardcore Gamer :D .

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