Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Baamz, Nov 27, 2013.
True Story Bro
Judging by the livestreams, it's confirmed that damage breaks stealth. There's an ability called Emergency Stealth that allows you to stealth in combat and briefly not get unstealthed by taking damage, but that's it. Sauce: http://www.wildstar-arkship.de/actionsetbuilder/en/stalker/
The worst stealth mechanic in mmo history is in a recenyoumo . in that game, you could restealth repeatedly with zero cool down in faction vs faction wars, being damaged does not reveal you, you could heal your self, dodge and in some instances attack while remaining stealthed- the last was left unfixed for some time-. You also had insane access to dodges and evades. To top that off, you can stack unlimited stealth. There is more into that but to the WildStar crowd it isn't important.
As for grass moving etc..do you really think you will be able to catch that in group vs. group fights or when someone is already on you? Or in large fights ? Or seeing that when someone is sneaking behind you which A stalker player will almost always do? How about when the terrain does not have grass etc or he drops on you from up top while stealthed?
Unfortunately Wildstar is starting to take a similar path: Restealth in combat with some abilities reducing the cool down on restealthing if you look at the build editor site. Also, default stealth gets revealed by damage but you can trait in a skill that prevents that. Also, some abilities prevent you from being revealed when damaged while stealthed even without traiting into the said ability.
You can also dodge roll while stealthed thus creating a gap while avoiding being damaged stealthed.
Given the fact that Stalkers have access to instant teleports with AOE roots, this coupled with stealth will still end up the stalker being one of the top pvp classes in small scale fights or ganking. I don't think the stalker will be effective in organized group vs. group --if there is such a thing- as no popular mmo has ever given a Stalker like class an efficient group role that trumps Tank/Healer/Caster in a group. Since this game is AOE based and the stalker is melee+squishy compared to a warrior and having to get close to the fray, they will be hit by random AOE and they will be prevented from being effective in groups.
Stealth in games is never introduced with the aim to achieve balanced gameplay. It is introduced to satisfy people who enjoy a handicap and thus get their subscription money. In every MMO, everyone remembers the stealther class being OP and either staying as such or being nerfed to the ground. The same will happen with WS.
^This. Stealth has been a playstyle that has been around in MMO for... quite a long time (resisting the impulse to say "since the beginning," "for hella dayz," etc.). Having been on both sides of the equation - with my favorite playstyle being stealth - I can say that it's not that difficult to counter, nor is it a bad idea to play. With RPGs, the roles will be out there - consider how squishy most stealth classes are when they're out of stealth - so any person saying that stealth is OP because they don't know how to deal with it is really hard to hear when, in fact, any player with enough skill can learn what to do in those situations. In past MMOs I've played, I've learned how to skillfully counter stealthers with various-ly-armored classes and have defeated them easily, just as easily as I've wiped the floor with someone in seconds as a stealther.
Overall point? WS is already changing their approach by offering additional tools with targeting, positioning, and what-have-you. After all of that, don't expect them to nerf the piss out of the class if you can't reasonably learn to counter - there needs to be SOME player accountability.
If stealth is something like in GW2, so that you cannot see your target no matter how close it is or that there is no reasonable tool to unveil or spot a stealthed character, well then it is less a "learn to counter" issue then a guessing / gambling (AoE spam) game. That combined with unlimited stealth duration will create an even worse "stealth meta".
Stalkers will have it a lot easier then in previous games. Damage wont unstealth them and stealth (atleast from what i know of it) has unlimited duration right now with no real penalties (CD or DR). Escaping as a stalker from about any situation will be easier then it ever was before. Which takes away the high risk high reward point.
Balance ain't finished. I'm aware of that. But from that last livestream my scepticism has gone up even more. As it occurs the stalker has one of the best short term burst ingame. This plus the ability to walk off about any fight with their "vanish" will make them a low risk high reward bursting / 1-shot / killing machine.
Stalkers disengaging themselves from combat will still be their best advantage. They can avoid that last hit that would defeat them and rob their opponent of victory. That is probably what will cause people to me most annoyed with them, but that's pretty much the same as in any game.
However, Wildstar still takes away a lot of what the stalker usually has to work with. That being that their stealth isn't perfect. You can see the "Predator Haze" up close. Their movements also disturb grass or water. Their telegraphs also flash briefly even when stealthed, giving the person a forewarning. Combine with the fact that pretty much all attacks in wildstar do not require a target. Just a telegraph to aim in the general direction. You don't have to see your target to hit it. Just get the area right.
The real threat I think from stalkers will be in group pvp. If it's a team of five vs. team of five? Those players are focused on their targets. That makes them less likely to notice the haze of a stalker as they move in close. In a smart team, the teammates of a stalker will do their job by acting as distractions. Such as a warrior taunting and tethering or a spellslinger drawing the targets attention to range while the stalker moves in close. Working together always works.
From my understanding, as Domi above posted, stealth in WS is gonna have that whole Predator-deal going on, not to mention the lack of targeting and every class having some sort of use-able AoE outside of combat does change how people will deal with stealth in this game. I've never played GW2, so I can't speak for that system, but from what I've gathered in LiveStreams for this game/from Twitch/etc., WS is already giving non-stealthers some tools to deal with Stalkers to where they don't have to sit their helplessly, in addition to their change in normal mechanics of targeting, moving, and cc-breaking. Additionally, while stalkers can use stealth in combat, my understanding is that there's a 20 second CD (Feel free to chime in if I'm wrong, people), not to mention that their "vanish" functions as any other vanish in other MMOs.
In any case, the game is still in Beta, so a lot of this discussion is moot, as a lot of this can change. My original point though was that I don't think they don't need to gimp the class to the point of it being unplayable. At its roots, WS is an MMORPG - where I'd like to draw attention to the "Role-Playing" part of the acronym - so rogues/stealth classes will always be there, since that type of play is appealing to groups of people, and most businesses try to capture as many demographics as they can. Call it cowardly/unfair if you want (and I'm not saying you specifically are saying those things, Shadez), but it comes with the territory. I don't like playing "turret" or "big-brawly" types in my games, but I recognize the the various roles and the demographic for them, so I don't go harping on why those classes shouldn't be allowed.
In any case, I'm ranting - people will play what they want to play. If there is legitimate imbalance - and not just a lot of whining about people who hate stealthers in general - then, I feel that Carbine/WS will make the necessary changes, especially since a lot of their Devs have worked on some of the bigger games currently out there.
SWTOR Scrappy Scoundrel here, and they've been "bottom of the barrel" for a long time if you're familiar - played it since the Summer of '12, when they were apparently at the bottom of their utility and I had just missed their OP-phase, yet I still loved the style and play of the class and spec.
Learned the class and wiped the floors with bodies after every update.
Nerf a class if you really feel you must, but people often forget that a lot of skill is involved as well. With WS making their changes, I'm excited for the challenge and ready to build some skills