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Circuit Board Crafting: Random Chips Discussion

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Gortok, May 11, 2013.

  1. Absolute

    Absolute Cupcake

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    Haha yeah that would be REALLY nice. This idea is from Anarchy Online and was really really fun to be honest. To have an item in one item-slot that you can upgrade basicly from lvl1 to the end. And even then make it stronger and stronger. And this item displayed some visual grafic to show how dedicated you are regarding this circuit board.

    It was FUN :) Bring it!
  2. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    isnt that the same as SWTOR? but with a cosmetic effect? or did i get it wrong?
  3. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    But you have to figure out what thresholds you can hit, and which build will maximize your performance given your current gear. It'll still make decisions which players have to make that are meaningful as to which thresholds are most important. The players that spend time figuring out and testing the proper thresholds will perform better than the ones that just say, "Interwebs says this build, so that's going to be my build."

    The thing is the theorycrafting sites will have information on some things which are definite, but some of this will shift around, based on decisions by the player.
  4. Sol

    Sol Cupcake-About-Town

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    This will just be spread-sheeted. AskMrRobot or someone will come up with a quick and easy solution. Sure, it will mean a little more work on the players behalf but the outcome is exactly the same. Go to internet, check stats, find next state budget upgrade.
    Furor likes this.
  5. Sol

    Sol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Thanks for the extra explanation. As you have stated, a lot of confusion also comes from us just theory crafting this, rather than having your hands-on experience. But I have my main concern across; some people really do like 'finishing' their characters in between content releases. While I really like the underlying principle of the system, I personally would just like some of the randomness taken away so that it may be realistically possible to achieve BiS if enough hard work was put in. Maybe I get 8-10/12 BiS - at least I got damn close!

    I do see the situation isn't dire, nor was I trying to imply it was. I all my intentions have been is to give feedback on the system and point out areas that I think will crop up as contentious. gear discrepancy and lack of solid attainable goals are those issues for me. Of those 2, the latter is more important for me because I do agree that ranking outcomes have many variables in play.

    Now it will be BiStats, not BiSlot imo.

    And I really wish more people though like I did too =p The problem is, both you and I have different ideas on what is fun and what skill/gear means. All I want is some recognition that my idea of fun is legitimate and hopefully we can get a system that has an element of randomness which also allows concrete goals after hard work and effort.
  6. Furor

    Furor Cupcake

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    • Please try to avoid flaming or personal attacks.
    Seriously. Unless your system of stats, gear, and abilities are completely and utterly random (like, say, every time you press an ability a random ability from any class, mob, or boss would be used), someone will find the best possible methods of utilizing them. That's just a basic fact of gaming. That's just a basic fact of MMOs. You're going to have Best In Slot. You're going to have Best Rotations or Ability Priorities. You're going to have all of these things, so why act like the game is going to be soooo deep that it'll literally be impossible? Not. Going. To. Happen.

    And honestly, a bunch of random stats on gear doesn't sound very deep to me. If the most interesting thing I'm running across most of the time is a choice between +Str or +Agi or +Armor or +Health then count me as someone who's going to be incredibly bored with gear choices. One of the things I hate the most about WoW's loot is how generic it's all become. Where are the cool procs? Where are the special effects? Where's the "wow" in WoW? Stuff like that shouldn't be happening on one single item per tier, it should be on a crapload of loot every tier. But what I've heard just makes me think the majority of the loot is some procedurally-generated generic junk that spends 99% of its time getting scrapped out for Chips that go into other procedurally-generated junk that wasn't quite as bad as that other stuff.
    Mat'hir Uth Gan likes this.
  7. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Where is the cool? Well if you had bothered to read the CBC info linked on the OPs opening post you would have seen the cool you are ranting about, and wouldn’t be here ranting about the lack of cool that article says is going to be part of the CBC system.

    This thread seems to be mostly a Min/Maxer Raid gear thread, and they don’t seem to care much about the cool factor of gear, so you don’t read much about it in this thread.
  8. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    My body is ready.
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  9. unindel

    unindel Cupcake

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    I think I sort of get how the different % of power that each slot gets will be important for the order in which random stats get rolled but do you think you could give some information about the non-attribute chips? From the blog post and what you've said it seems that attribute chips with flat bonuses and special chips both require a flat amount of power. Does that mean that if I put a special chip that requires 50 power into a slot that should get 25% of power if it was an attribute chip (with 50 being less than 25% of the total) that I just lose out on that extra power or does it get rerouted to the other slots? How about power amps? It seems like if I put a power amp in a 35% slot then yeah I get the extra power from the amp but do I lose the 35% of the base power?

    Is there even still base power on the items? The single frame from the movement video shows an item being crafted with 111 power coming from a power amp and 111 power going into a random stat chip but the numbers on the screenshot from the blog post don't add up nicely like that...
  10. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    While our ideas of fun may differ, and that's awesome, what skill and gear means is not matter of opinion really, rather facts. That aside, if you read the dev post, your wish has been granted already. This isn't Diablo, it's not a random, randomness fest:

    'In the end, the really hardcore are going to break out spreadsheets and figure out if a new item is good for them or not, but they won't be able to universally claim that its a better item for everyone in all situations.' (Mr. Dev)

    The goal is there, it's just different for you and I. Or it may be identical for you and I, but dfferent for everyone else:)

    And last, this isn't pointing at you just a general statement after reading some posts on here - not sure why people jump at dissecting random words from dev speak, instead of trying to grasp the whole picture?
  11. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    I’m not a Min/maxer or a Raider, so my choices about gear are not going to be the same as theirs. I like the cool factor, and as a Soloer, sometimes I feel the cool is more advantageous than a few stat points (I can see all of the Min/maxers and Raiders cringing at this statement.:D ).

    Now that I have stated where I am coming from; this statement in the CBC Doc
    makes me think that there might be reasons why you would choose not get the max stats from a piece of gear, by not putting a Stat chip in the terminating socket.

    My question is; if I were to put this Ability chip into a terminating socket, would its abilities increase?

    Gear.png
  12. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    Ability Chips can only go in sockets that are designated for them. We can designate a non-terminating socket as either a Specials Socket or an Attributes Socket. Terminating Sockets are only ever going to be Stat Sockets.

    An Ability Chip may have multiple Abilities on it of differing cost and effect. The player may choose to change the amount of power Alocated to that chip, thus changing the amount of power that continues to the next chip in that branch. In the example you posted, there is an Ability Chip in the Middle column called Static Charger. This chip only has one cost listed.
    The socket uses 50 power and passes the remaining power along. We have simplified how this power is communicated to the player because it was non-intuitive before, and really required a calculator to figure out. Long story short, if the chip had 250 power getting to it, and it used 50 power, then 200 power would be passed along to the final attribute chip in the final column.

    Lets say the chip had another special on it:
    In this case, you could choose to use the 50 power version or the 100 power version. We call these thresholds. If you use the 100 power threshold, then only 150 power would be passed along to the final attribute chip. Basically, you are making the decision of whether you want 5 extra stat points in Finesse (Formerly Dex) or do you want the extra 134 restored shields every time the chip "procs".
    Zilvoran, Rumze, Alverad and 3 others like this.
  13. unindel

    unindel Cupcake

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    Do the items still have some base power then or do they all need power amps? And do the power amps have to go in the large looking sockets on the schematics?

    Also then, is it more accurate to say that the pipes get some % of the power allocated towards going to them rather than the sockets themselves? So the top junction in that socket is getting 197+50 = 247 power and the bottom junction is getting 137 power meaning that the top junction is getting 247/384 = 64% of the total power of the schematic (base + amp) and the bottom junction is getting 137/384 = 36% of the total power. Then you're free based on which threshold you choose to determine how much of that 64% from the top junction goes to the final socket.

    I really like the sound of that threshold system though. It sounds pretty neat in that it'll probably be a pretty diff choice for diff players depending on how close they might be to a given milestone.
  14. Sawpaw

    Sawpaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have to say, I'm having a very hard time trying to understand the way it all works, it sounds extremely complicated, I can see this would be great for people who understand it, it seems to have a lot of depth, but I'm thinking there is going to be quite a few that do not know what the hell to do when faced with this system.
  15. C1d0s

    C1d0s Cupcake

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    It does sound really in-depth, but I can only see that as a positive in relation to something so important as gear. I just hope that there is enough explanation or tutorial for the inexperienced so that they aren't overwhelmed.
  16. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    I believe the difficulty comes from not being able to sit at and play with the system. We will check that out in the beta and with focus testing. There is a lot of depth, but the system is pretty intuitive once you are in front of it, I think. The math in the example above is bad - the numbers don't add up. We are fixing that.

    Even if you aren't really sure about how the math works out, it is pretty simple to understand that if you put a Moxie chip on a socket that has a Brutality chip in it, you will get Moxie instead of Brutality. This is the introductory experience. When you first get access to play around with the system, there are only 1-2 chips in most items, so it is really simple at first.
    drub likes this.
  17. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

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    It will get complicated quickly if you don't have a bag JUST for chips and stuff. Hate to use another game, but swtor had you making all this stuff and half the time I didn't know what I had. In real life I'd use an excel spreadsheet to track stuff...but that lacks our favorite word...immersion. I had to break away mentally from the game to craft. I'm not sure it was the best way to go for swtor.

    I have a basic understanding from your examples...but where will I put all the stuff??? How do I keep it separate? Can I just glance at a chip and know what it does or do i need to read the specs on it each time. And where will i put all the chips i collect??
  18. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    So I can kind of do what I was talking about; but I don’t swap the chips around, and the Ability chip has to have multiple abilities on it. This opens up the potential for even more choices, being that other choice/choices(?) on the Ability chip might not be a stronger version, but a different ability altogether. Having the potential for multiple abilities on an Ability chip makes paying attention to the chip sets on a new/loot piece of gear even more important (I think this is a good thing.).

    Can you turn the abilities on and off, or is the chip locked once you turn one on?
    I.e. if my circumstances changes; say I had decided that the stronger restored shield was better for me, but now I’m close to a Milestone that I want and can get by switching the Ability chip back to the lower setting, it would be nice to be able to do that instead of having to acquire a higher Power chip or Attribute chip (I would also like to be able switch it back if I decide the Milestone is not worth the cost in shield recovery.).

    More potential choices.
  19. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    I really like the potential depth and customisability. I'm eagerly waiting to hear more.
  20. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I
    It doesn't seem like there are tons of different individual chip variations. I mean you have:
    • Power Amps which are some set amount of Power
    • Ability chips which cost a fixed amount of power and perform a function
    • Attribute chips which use remaining power to convert to attribute points.
    So keeping track should be quite easy.

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