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Clearing up Misconceptions on Open World PvP

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Bardic, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Do you mean something different than the regular PvP servers that are available in most games today?

    In MMORPGs that don't have goals, consequences or (my personal favorite) Full Loot. Ganking will always be a big part as there isn't any real reason to fight other than fighting. And many people would rather fight a fight they know they can win rather than one they could lose. It's one of the reasons I've always supported hiding my level and strength to enemy. I could wander around my factions low level areas dressed like a lowbie ready to kill the griefers. Most gankers run when they see a stronger character, so I'd rather they don't know if I am or not, then I can sucker them in...

    Anywho hide my level to the enemy and give me full loot and we would limit the amount of gankers dramatically.

    I'd recommend waiting until they feature info about Warplots. There's a lot of speculation that may well be unfounded. To me Warplots seem like the best addition to the PvP scene for this game. Of course I base that on what little we know. We shall see.
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  2. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    I equate world pvp as world pve - out in the world hunting, ooo i see a player/rare - going to prepare myself to take it down ahhh someone attacked me / oh god its a devilsaur .
    I equate warplots with raids. All right team, get ready, be on your toes, we know we have these many phases / up against this kinda pvp team that likes cc. Make sure we protect the healers from adds/stalkers.
    Everyone on voice chat? Alright lets goooo .
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  3. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    What was the first MMO you played?

    Because if that's what you think world PvP is, you've never played a world PvP game. Pretty much anything from WoW to now, hasn't had world PvP.

    It's sad that a lot of people share your uninformed view. But most of those people are part of the WoW generation. So they think that getting ganked by some max level nerd in a level 20 zone is the kind of PvP that world PvPers want to engage in. It's not.
  4. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    It could turn out not to be terrible. But the info that I've gotten is not encouraging.
  5. Laban

    Laban Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hopefully they'll eventually expand the world PvP to be similar to DAoC and Warhammer Online, I had so much fun in those games.
  6. Pattybigrig

    Pattybigrig New Cupcake

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    What about Warplots dont you like? I havent really kept up with the Warplots.
  7. Revon

    Revon Well-Known Cupcake

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    A game I used to play called Neosteam had some fun world PvP features. You'd get missions to assassinate (tough) NPC's in the enemy faction's towns, and there was a RvR event twice a week where you'd fight over three castles, with no player limits. If you captured a castle/castles you had to defend it til the end of the event. Also siege engines and other cool stuff. I never played WoW so I don't know what the world PvP there is like, but I really enjoyed it in Neosteam and I'm hoping we get something similiar in Wildstar. :geek:
  8. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like what they have planned so far. I like open world PVP, as I like the added danger and the added competition while questing and the fights that broke out before there was instant travel to dungeons. I really don’t enjoy the objective based World PVP zones/objectives as it rarely creates an interesting PVP battle to me, but there are those that do, so wouldn’t want to deny them that opportunity. Just as long as they don’t tie exclusive/more powerful rewards which would force those who have no interest in that form of PVP into playing it.
  9. Flawz

    Flawz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Couple Ideas for later when they get a chance after launch to focus more on OWPvP options

    GUILD TOWNS: I would like to see guild town's that can be placed on land (non instanced) around Nexus that can be attacked by opposite faction :) When attacked a Faction wide warning goes out. and That guild gets Big Red Message on their screen with a Teleport to your town option. Each building has HP bars and depending on the building. Shields/armor. then have minor defenses like NPCs to clear out to give players to respond. Not WarPlots. Guild Towns would server other purposes then PvP.

    HARVESTERS: Nexus is full of rare minerals and Loftite, Why not have "sockets" around nexus where people can plug in harvesters to gather minerals (this could take hours) and can be attacked and destroyed by opposite faction. People can drop their harvesters and then either stay and guard them or they can go adventure. When harvester is full they can click a button and send it flying back to their House Plot to gather anything found.


    SAFE ZONES: I think a lot of the Safe zones for PvP realms could include Big neutral cities where they can quest hub together (native race both factions need help from so they do errands for.) and flag at their desire.. So instead of making whole zones that are "Safe" in a PvP/PvE server. Make it Optional to fight each other without Guards attacking players in the towns since the whole zone is Flag to Fight wont need them other than to fend off monsters. but not players. This will make the players who want to quest or who don't wanna be ganked feel more comfy in those zones, provided they dont flag :p Watch out who you heal :) hehe
  10. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    The fact that it's instanced and that it's 20v20 or 40v40.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/uplink_analysis_pvp.php

    What... a... joke. More QUEUEING for PvP. Ugh.
  11. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    "warriors will dead"
  12. Vunak

    Vunak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Massively. Multiplayer. Online. Roleplaying. Game.

    In an itty-bitty instance.
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  13. Daktarelis

    Daktarelis New Cupcake

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    Non instanced housing, be it guild towns or whatever is just not feasible in this kind of game. The zones are carefully hand-crafted, each with its own style, and I would imagine they will be relatively small. I don't think anybody wants the landscapes littered with randomly placed houses or "towns" shaped like a giant penis when viewed from the air (oh yes, it would happen if the players are given this opportunity). Not to mention that such "dynamic" content imposes a performance requirement on client hardware. Also, what would be the point of having a guild town, if it's only purpose is to be attacked by the opposing faction? What about 4 am raids, when the defenders are offline? So, no, guild towns are not gonna happen.

    Harvesters - well... guarding a harvester for hours does not seem like fun. Sounds more like a tedious job. And if someone decides to go around and kill your harvesters, replacing them with their own, you will have a nice opportunity to play an exciting game of whack-a-harvester, without actually ever engaging in pvp. So no, I hope developers don't waste their time on such a feature.

    I personally don't think non-consensual pvp is a desirable type of gameplay - at least from the developers point of view. For every person who enjoys "pwning clueless nubs" doing their quests or whatever, there are multiple "clueless nubs" who are frustrated with the experience. And frustrated people tend not to do things that frustrate them and leave the game for good. Allowing this type of gameplay actually reduces developers and publishers income. I think this is one of the reasons why most new mainstream games either do not have this kind of pvp, or limit it substantially with safe zones, guards, flying mounts, etc...
  14. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was with you up until these points.

    Of course you are entitled to you personal beliefs, but why do you think developers (in general)would share your view?


    The only thing "clueless" about these "nubs" you speak of is that they are on the wrong server.


    What "new mainstream" games would you be referring to?
  15. Daktarelis

    Daktarelis New Cupcake

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    There is no such thing as "developers(in general)" game developers are people with differing opinions, however, game development, as any business seeks to maximize its profits. Maximizing profits means maximizing playerbase and maximizing playerbase includes retaining existing players. Forcing players to do stuff they don't want to do is a sure way to shrink the playerbase. Therefore, it's in the game developers best interests to limit or remove features that force unwanted game style upon the players. Again, this is my reasoning, which i would use if I ever developed my own game :) Other people of course, might have differing opinions and I did not mean to say that I know the views of the majority of game developers.

    As to your remark about choosing the wrong server - It's correct. However, the choice of server rules before even creating your first character means that many people will make ill informed decisions. And in many cases it's not reversible, or costs money to transfer to a new server. Also, a lot of people don't choose pvp servers because of world pvp. The choice often involves their guild, friends, a cool server name, going where the cool kids go, and many other factors. From a business standpoint, a lost customer is still a lost customer, regardless of how clueless about server types he/she is

    For the game examples : TSW, GW2, the upcoming TESO. All relatively new, AAA games, and not one of them has non-consensual pvp.
  16. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    As a side note, I don't believe they said 20v20 anywhere about Warplots. They are strictly 40v40 to my knowledge.

    Anyway, I actually think that instanced PvP is the best way to give players who really want objective-based team PvP experience they are looking for.

    Don't get me wrong... I LOVE the spontaneity of the open world, coming across memebers of the opposite faction and having an unscheduled throw-down for pride and pride alone. That can be a rush, and I believe the best part of open world PvP.

    But when designers try to hobble together open-world objectives, no matter how grand (or how small) it not only feels contrived, but also ends up underutilized. You never end up with the same number of players, on both factions, at the same time, with the same intentions, willing to work together. But that's precisely (in theory) what instanced objective-based PvP gives you!

    So for my money, I'm fine with open-world PvP being spontaneous, unscheduled and even unfair... It shouldn't have too many (if any) "systems" or objectives behind it. Just let warfare happen as it may.
  17. Flawz

    Flawz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Just so negative lol, All these examples I have listed have been already done in other games for the most part.. All were fun and had purpose...

    The zones in WildStar are big, Watch the video's ? They said the game is massive.
    And I said guild towns not houses all over the place. They have socket and plug technology and their engine allows them to mold landscape so I doubt your gonna get enough guilds to band together to make a giant penis out of Towns.

    My examples (idea's) may they be from other games or made up worked in those games just fine. Guild Towns provide unique buffs and hubs for social gatherings. the being destroyed part happens. thats why its pvp.

    You DONT have to stay at harvesters for hours. and most people who don't actually run accross them while questing wont know you plant them provided they are not harvester hunting. You get a message saying your harvester is full then it rockets back to your plot. Dont take 1 statement out of text and then make it like thats all i said in the sentence. I said you can plant a harvester and either stay or go quest or something.

    Your views are your own, My post was simply suggestion and nothing is perfect. But my friends and I have personally experienced these additions to games and they are extremely fun and competitive. They add to World PvP in a way that hard core pvpers can do more than instanced PvP. theres actually a goal to strive for (not saying instanced has no goal, i do love instanced too).. Conquering the opposition and perhaps titles and achievements/rewards/buffs for accomplishing such feats.
  18. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    Since there has been and continues to be clearly two distinct philosophies about pvp and pve as seen in threads like this one and many others like it I would argue that developers understand that there is a need for choice to maximize the player base and profits.

    What you suggest is the very thing you argue against, the limitation or removal of choice and the forcing of all players to play your way.


    The differences between pvp and pve server rule sets are clearly and often overly stated. In games I have played they incorporate pop up warnings that are designed to warn potentially new players of the choice they are about to make if they choose a pvp server and the consequences involved before they can proceed.

    I do not see peer pressure lack of reading and or comprehension as valid reasoning from a business standpoint to exclude the pvp rule sets.


    I don't know much about TSW and I don't exactly see GW2 as a shinning example of a game that any developer should copy especially not on the pvp front, but I did ask the question.

    However, it is my understanding that currently TESO will offer open world pvp or as you call it "non-consensual" pvp.

    I have read that TESO borrows from the DAoC combat system and will offer a huge map (Cyrodiil), where opvp will take place.

    YouTube TESO opvp ..discussion starts @ around 10:35
  19. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Part of the fun are the sporadic battles, ganking is part of that.

    You don't lose much by getting killed anyhow, while some like to breeze from quest to quest others like to have things to do in between. It also seems to be more normal considering the faction war, instead of Just running past another faction member.

    Those who are opposed to it see those random battles to be a hindrance, those who are for it find it a notable addition to their game play sessions.

    While Fairness in world pvp is none-existant and those trying to aim for it are after a hopeless task. Something should be there to prevent lowbie ganking and spawn camping.
    By that i mean simply giving multiple spawn options (if you then resurrect at the same one, well too bad for you personally) and giving multiple quest hubs and ways to level up so you aren't stuck on that specific quest hub.

    That's why we also have different server rule set folks, as we can't bridge that playstyle difference. It doesn't mean by giving something something is also being taken away from you :)

    The only thing i would like to see is from the first week an active role by the developer to balance out factions as close as possible, Current WoW scenario should be avoided at all cost where there is such an imbalance it's not fun for either faction and it generally feels like a PvE server for the largest side.

    There's also the myth that generally better players roll on PvP servers as newer mmo players tend to get scared off by the description of such a rule set. It's hard to say how much truth is in that.
    Afrotech likes this.
  20. Flawz

    Flawz Cupcake-About-Town

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    ya know what I think would be fun and add to the sci-fi part of the game... Rez stations that float and are operated by some country voiced high personality guy/gal that every time you die they have dialog thats funny.

    They would have a rez station up there to re-animate your body and then have a machine to launch you to a spot on the map near where you died or to a nearby town.. Like a big telegraph on the ground in the quest area you were in.. and in any location inside that telegraph you can land and then continue on after a big "are ya ready? here we goooo! Yeee haawwww!" as he flips the switch to launch you back to your area and then sittin back with a cold one waiting for the next person to be reanimated.

    Because PvP is part of the game and on PvP servers your going to get ganked. Why not turn it into a fun thing that, not promps you to die but gives you a little encouragement from the NPC who runs the station up there with fun personality to get you pumped back up for the action.

    PvP server = PvP plain and simple, your going to get ganked / camped / farmed for xp and harassed. Don't want that then dont roll PvP

    PvE server= No ganking / camping / farmed for xp. If you want PvP then flag and have fun. PvE is your choice without the hardcore PvP or fear of ganks you get from PvP servers.

    PvP rules :) And that good ol' rezzer in the sky loves watching the action and sendin ya back to try agian.. perhaps this time with a buff :p "Go get um" :)
    Afrotech likes this.

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