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Clearing up Misconceptions on Open World PvP

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Bardic, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Corinthar

    Corinthar Cupcake

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    Sounds exactly as I'd hoped it would be, cheers Bradic ;)
  2. Geldarion

    Geldarion New Cupcake

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    Overall, good idea planning to see where players gravitate.

    Personally, I am not fond of OW PvP objectives. Frankly, one way Open World is generally different from instanced PvP because it doesn't have objectives. OW PvP should be done for the joy of the experience. How do we get the numbers for the fun that can be OW PvP though?

    Three things you have to worry about as a PvP designer:

    1. People take the most efficient route. If people figure out that the rewards for OW are better than for instances, then you get a system that facilitates kill trading and organized exploiting.

    2. People need incentives. This conflicts with #1, but it can be implemented. For example, a cosmetic rating or achievements unlocked through OW kills, with multiple kills on the same person in a row contributing less to the rating or achievement. This does not aid in gearing the character, but is more for the prestige.

    3. Objectives can get in the way of PvP. You are well aware as a former Turbine designer the issues we had with players ignoring the enemy players in lieu of fighting the bosses in the keeps. Many times, there would be only PvE going on in the Moors, which was frustrating to say the least.

    Some solutions that I can see are the following:

    1. Stop kill-trading from occurring with decreasing rewards for the same player kill.

    2. Provide incentives that do not compete with the gear acquisition of instanced PvP, i.e. gear comes from structured PvP, glory and prestige from OW.

    3. Create natural bottlenecks and intersections of daily quests, path missions, and travel for the two factions. Make Settler improvements vulnerable to enemy attacks. Bring the two factions together, and they won't need a reason to fight on PvP servers; it will just happen. To create OW PvP on PvE servers, it is a little more tricky. Perhaps add a taunt that invites the enemy player to flag and attack. Give us a way to ruffle the enemy's feathers, and again, OW PvP will break out.

    I love what you are doing with structured PvP, so I look forward to what you do with Open World PvP!
    Forge Darksteel likes this.
  3. Mange

    Mange New Cupcake

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    You got normal XP for killing in Age of Conan if you weren't 80, as well.
  4. Haversham

    Haversham Cupcake-About-Town

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    I guess i don't understand then. As far as I know there are only two types of XP you can get so far in WS, class and path leveling. PvP leveling isn't something that's being talked about I believe.
  5. Geldarion

    Geldarion New Cupcake

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    XP is XP is XP, no matter where you get it. Path missions will probably grant both path advancement based on your accomplishments and XP that advances your character level. PvP will add straight up XP as well.
  6. Mange

    Mange New Cupcake

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    That's why I suggested it.
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  7. Screenager

    Screenager Cupcake-About-Town

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    This all seems fairly sound. As I and most of the guys that I've played with have been in objective based open world pvp games we tend to see players either playing for the rewards or their reputation. Assuming that there is a relevant rep/bounty/progression system for the open world pvp then this should suffice as long as the other pvp gameplay modes give sufficient rewards when we play them beyond rep.
  8. Grelin

    Grelin Cupcake

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    I'm rather excited about this now, just gotta pick whether to go the safe PvE route or go to a straight on PvP server.
  9. Wayoverpowered

    Wayoverpowered Cupcake-About-Town

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    Same here... I'm hopeful/optimistic that the other PVP systems in-game will be enough for me, even though OW PVP objective areas (even if it's just nice farming areas that cause you to get pvp flagged for entering, small capturables, etc.) are really what I enjoy the most out of PVP. While I'll be rooting for them to add something over time for this, I'm a bit jaded from prior MMO's at this point.

    That would definitely be ideal, if it happens. It would definitely make for a much more organic implementation.
  10. CRB_Bardic

    CRB_Bardic Carbine Studios

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    To cut down on the bullying, we'll be setting it up so that area effect/free form hostile abilities will not affect flagged characters if you are not flagged yourself. Attempting force flagging is something that I hope gets a lot of testing in our beta stage, we'd like to make sure we've covered all the bases here!
    Screenager, smoret, Zilvoran and 6 others like this.
  11. Glacius

    Glacius Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh it'll be tested for sure bahaha!
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  12. Clockwerk

    Clockwerk Cupcake

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    Any chance to see something lile a *bounty system* i loved it in SWG !
  13. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I've never really understood this mindset. But I guess I've always been a hardcore PvPer and someone that kind of enjoys taking their lumps because that's all part of the fun.

    Part of playing on a PvP server, is that feeling of danger that anyone could be lurking around a corner ready to kick your ass. Even the big bad bullies that can 1 or 2-shot you.

    And even though it's never fun to get 1-shot and camped, I've had those experience turn into some of the most fun world PvP in MMOs. You call in reinforcements and kick their asses, they call in reinforcements, and before you know it, a fullscale war has broken out while you were trying to collect 10 pieces of boar meat.

    Considering that in this game there will be experience gains and potentially other benefits to this sort of world PvP, it could make the sometimes tedious task of leveling a lot less painful when a good old fashioned brawl breaks out and turns the zone into a warzone! Sounds awesome, right!?
    Evab, JCwildthing and Glacius like this.
  14. Glacius

    Glacius Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree. It's time to bring back TM/SS.
    mockingfox, Evab and Kataryna like this.
  15. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    True. Some people are just...jelly, in lack of a better word. They take it very seriously and get offended when they get ganked, but then that's what pve servers are for.

    These situations of being ganked by high levels hardly ever happen often enough to become a problem unless we're talking about special cases (ex: Rift's pvp rift events taking place in lowbie areas so ofc the high levels carrying the quest items would gank any red text in their path for the duration of the event).

    PVE servers are a crutch and they don't even make sense lore-wise. I mean where is it mentioned in the lore that factions at war should just ignore eachother ?!
    WakeskaterX and mockingfox like this.
  16. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, I've played on a PvE server before. So weird.

    And when someone asks what can be done about gankers, the only answer is....

    Revenge *stab*
    mockingfox likes this.
  17. JCwildthing

    JCwildthing Cupcake

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    I totally agree. I think what makes a PvP server exciting is all of this aforementioned goodness.

    If getting ganked impacts your enjoyment of the game then play on a PvE server. There's no shame in that. "Play it your way", right?
    mockingfox likes this.
  18. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Right. Because that's what a PvP server is. By "doing something" about gankers, you're changing the very definition of what a PvP server is.

    If they want to add another server type called "gank-free PvP" then go for it. I won't roll there.
    mockingfox and JCwildthing like this.
  19. mockingfox

    mockingfox Cupcake

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    So the only difference is that when you are in a shared faction zone you will be flagged? This saddens me because now there is no point in raiding the opponents lands, there can be no occupation and it is not even a disturbance if I gather 40 people and go on a Crusade. Which is IMO the whole point of World PvP?

    I mean, its not World PvP if you cant go anywhere in the world and PvP!
    Sevvy likes this.
  20. mockingfox

    mockingfox Cupcake

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    One way around this that I would like to bring to light is Objective based control for the sake of controling a location, for example lets say the top raid.
    Suddenly you can only enter the raid when all 3 of the points in the zone are under your factions control, meaning that if you want to run this totally awsome top rank raid you are going to have to schedule some time to PvP you way there or even ask help from your faction to clean it up really quickly just so you can get all your Raid memebers into the dungeon. Now there are Rewards that arent acumulated to quickly, but are also interesting to everyone.

    I know what you are thinking. "but the PVEers will scream at this!" and yet it is still a good idea.
    Evab and Glacius like this.

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