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Controller Support

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Paterk, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Fuhrer If you are using xpadder, I can give you a setup that working amazing for MMOs especially gw2. I fixed the camera issue with the cursor floating around, and even added an auto center cursor feature.
  2. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hey sorry for not responding have been semi afk / busy lately :)

    So to be more precise about why I don’t like it.

    Ok so I would argue that for the majority of players playing with a mouse and keyboard would be the easiest and most efficient way to play, both for skilled and less skilled players.
    Would also argue that the majority of players would play worse using the 360 (or whatever controller the individual would prefer).

    I would than say placing a big bright “Use xbox 360 Controller” toggle button in the controls menu, would lead to a higher percentage of players also including players who would play worse would use it for the only reason that they think the game is designed / intended to be played with a controller.
    This would lead to some players skilled or less skilled to play worse that what they would using a mouse and a keyboard.

    Therefore hiding the option and having to jump through hoops to get it to work would make a barrier that only the player who plays better or prefers to play with a controller, would breach.

    I always think it’s best to let players play the game the way it is designed and then let the players who are willing to go thought the trouble of making it work on other platforms do their thing.


    Also wasn’t meant to offend anyone..

    Not really connected but playing sc2 on a tablet is kind of awesome
  3. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Here is a list of all the obstacles I've had playing with a controller in MMOs over the past 4 years.
    1. Click Targeting Players on Screen
    2. Inventory Management and Interacting with UI in general
    3. Playing the UI during a Raid
    4. Running in One Direction, Aiming in Another
    5. Ground Targeted AOEs
    6. Using all my hotbar spells
    Here are my solutions I've ether came up with myself, or new systems in various MMOs have introduced.
    1. Mapping "Next Enemy, Previous Enemy, Next Friend, Previous Friend, Target Teammate 1-5" on my controller. Also games like Tera, Neverwinter, GW2 with the immersive combat mod have made this easier with cross hair targeting mechanics.
    2. Holding down the "Back" button on my controller shifts into a cursor mode. Right Stick moves cursor, Left Trigger = Left Click, Right Trigger = Right Click, Start Button = Map, "Xbutton" = Bags, etc. For extended periods of UI interaction, my mouse and keyboard are 6 inches away.
    3. Not only is it extremely lame to have to an add on like Heal Bot dumb down the gameplay enough to make content actually playable, but the amount of time and dedication it takes to raid isn't even possible on my lifestyle's radar. Not a fix or solution I know. Raiding is just not something I've ever been able to do. I guess all of my points are invalid now...
    4. With the current camera system set up I have, it turns the games movement scheme into a "3rd person" shooter type arrangement. This can make running forward, and targeting AOE spells behind you at the same time impossible. The solutions are games like Champions Online, Tera, and Neverwinter which offer 360 degree movement more akin to playing Mario or Devil May Cry. (pressing "S" doesn't make u slowly back pedal). This allows me to run in any direction while aiming the camera in any direction.
    5. This was difficult in WoW and Swtor because u had to Left Click your mouse to initialize the spell after aiming. But when GW2 introduced Fast Cast AOE Targeted Spells, It became a simple matter of 1. Using an Auto Center Cursor Macro in Xpadder. 2. Pressing the AOE spell. 3. Aiming the spells circle target. 4. Pressing the spell again. Tera also made this more compelling with its system.
    6. If you take the time to look at some of my previous posts in this thread, you can see my WoW keybinds. I had over 80 keybinds on one controller. If you think this is absurd, well...isn't having 80+ keybinds for a game absurd in and of itself?


    Of course there is the whole issue of a joystick not giving you the same amount of precision as a mouse. But were not aiming for headshots in MMOs.

    I want someone to prove to me how devastating controllers REALLY are to MMOs. Please leave PC elitism out of the discussion. I'm solely a PC user, and I'm able to.
  4. Rakkis

    Rakkis Cupcake

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    Personally hate, but if it works for others why not. To be fair only time i tried it was tera, and hated it.
  5. Fuhrer Firma

    Fuhrer Firma New Cupcake

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    "I would than say placing a big bright “Use xbox 360 Controller” toggle button in the controls menu, would lead to a higher percentage of players also including players who would play worse would use it for the only reason that they think the game is designed / intended to be played with a controller.
    This would lead to some players skilled or less skilled to play worse that what they would using a mouse and a keyboard."

    This is simply not an issue at all. They already code many pc games to work with 360 controller. When you have the controller plugged into your pc and turned on you see a picture of an xbox button during all the on screen options. When you dont have a controller turned on it shows the keyboard options. So if they didnt already have a controller plugged in and turned on they would never know that there were other ppl out there using "inferior" controller support.

    Also about people not playing as well on a controller is simply not true if the controller support is done correctly. I many times was only whm for 2 parties and i healed, buffed, debuffed mob all using a controller, very quickly and accurately. In GW2 my melee characters do amazing on controller but the mage characters do suffer a bit from ground targeting. My guardian is level 48 fractals of the mist and my warrior is 33 (and i stopped leveling them a long time ago). This is considered really hard content and I do it with ease on controller. I have found ways of improving the ground targeting making this only a small issue. If it were up to me entirely I would remove ground targeting and offer native controller support. Instead of needing to target a particular spot on the ground just be able to target somone in your party quickly and have it cast at that location, or at your own location. Many of the attack spells that are ground targeted would be much better to automatically cast beneath the mob you are currently targeting.
  6. jonbones

    jonbones Cupcake

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    thank christ you're not in charge of any business decisions
  7. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ahh you misunderstand, as a buisness making a PC based MMO I just woulden't support it.

    From a player perspective i would than have to jump though hoops, i would never program it and after making the game fit a controler than hide the option to use it.

    which also seems like the way Carbine is handling it, so its all good from my point of view, adn might not be as bad a buisness decesion as you might think :)
  8. jonbones

    jonbones Cupcake

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    I don't see how making a feature less accessible is good for anyone, but the weird 'hardcore gamer' superiority complex seems to run deep in MMO circles.

    Regardless, if native controller support is built into Wildstar, I'll use it and I'll have a blast sitting back and enjoying the game. If that puts me at such a huge disadvantage, then you should be able to mow me down in PvP no problem...
  9. Makost0rM

    Makost0rM New Cupcake

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    Lowering someone slowly into a vat of boiling oil was always my preferred method.
  10. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    I for one am against dumbing down a PC game for console players.... I play PC games because I dislike the limited buttons to push in console games.
  11. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Please take the time to read some of my earlier posts.
  12. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't mind people using controllers to play how they want. I just wouldn't want to play with them, unless they're able to communicate as well. You can change sensitivity on controllers so that a toon can turn just as fast as with a mouse (it'd be silly though) and you can probably map most of the vital keys for solo play. But, if we can't communicate in a high end situation because you prefer to play with a controller and it's hurting the success of the team? I'm just imagining some guy sitting on his couch with a controller and a keyboard...

    For any game at all mouse and keyboard are better than controller. Only people who don't take the time to actually learn to play with a mouse and keyboard would think they're the same. Playing with a controller is easier, but it's also less effective. There's no denying that.
  13. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Flight in Planetside 2 (or any traditional flight sim for that matter) is horrible with a mouse.
    Any 2d platformer ever is horrible when played on a keyboard.
    Try playing Darksiders/Devil May Cry on a controller then a keyboard/mouse.
    Racing games on keyboard and mouse are best?
    I couldn't imagine playing a Football, Basketball, Soccer Game without a joystick.
    Super Mario 64 best played when ported to PC?

    Can you make compelling arguments for keyboard/mouse in regards to the examples above?
  14. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Nope, I was wrong. I'll be more specific and say FPS and MMOs. Flight (in certain instances) does also FEEL better on a controller, but I don't think it performs better at all. Feeling is important, but I'd say functionality is more so.
  15. Disort

    Disort New Cupcake

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    The only thing I want to do after a long/hard day at work is plug in my controller lean back and do some quests. I really hope they have controller support. most of the time ill play with keyboard/mouse but sometimes you just wanna play with a controller
  16. Earl

    Earl New Cupcake

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    I would love to use a controller, but I just usually find using a controller to be lacking in areas that make me feel like I could be playing better with the mouse and keyboard. I don't know how spotting telegraphs could be as efficient as a mouse IMO.
  17. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Its the same argument of keybinding versus clicking. Its less effecient, and efficiency matters.
    Drasas likes this.
  18. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Do you mean that keybinding is the issue? If that's the case then would you be surprised if I said I could get over 150 unique keybinds mapped to a controller. And with a little forethought to the design of a game, using your cursor to click targets could be eliminated altogether.

    In my many years of playing MMOs with a pad, this is always the issue that feels most compromised. But after playing Tera and then guild wars 2, the issue has become less irritating. If you can aim a cross hair with sticks, your good to go on those games. But a mouse is still going to be faster. I can live with that. I ain't no pro player.
  19. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    No, I am well aware of how many keys can be mapped to a controller, but you admit the major problem right here:

    Speed does matter. I do not want to play with "clickers" (not that you will ever get rid of them) nor do I want to play with anyone who intentionally inhibits themselves in this way. Its no different than a person who wears gear because it looks nice even though that gear is horribly statted for them.
  20. Fuhrer Firma

    Fuhrer Firma New Cupcake

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    If you have not personally played several mmo's on keyboard/mouse, and also on controller why would you even post with your opinion. You simply do not know. It is impossible to live beyond your own experiences. Stop wasting your time posting about something you have no knowledge about. I am an extremely skilled player. I always excel at the most difficult content games have to offer and I do so from the comfort of a controller. So saying ppl do not play as well on a controller is ridiculous to me (bc I actually know this is incorrect not just posting stuff like a fanboy, ei: wow vs. gw2, or controller vs keyboard, or ps3 vs xbox). There are many ppl in my guild who I try to avoid parting with bc they are not very skilled players. So I know when other ppl are sucking. These are all ppl playing on keyboard/mouse. If you are a good player, you will be a good player no matter your choice of input. I know you can not aim crosshairs as fast with a controller in an FPS. So I agree controller is not best for any FPS. But I have never tried to get a headshot in an MMO. Change is coming in the way we play games. As the gaming generation gets older we are not able to sit at computer and pound buttons like we did when we were younger. The hardcore gamers will have to have controllers bc of arthritis and will want to be in a comfortable armchair or on the couch. TV's are being integrated with computers and many ppl already use their TV as their computer monitor, or at least have it as an option for output. I still keep my keyboard close by to type but I rarely ever use anything other than voicechat so it is not necessary. It is not hard or time consuming to include controller support and with native controller support you can be sure the playing field is as even as possible. The people that desperately want controller support will thank you, and the ppl that dont want anyone using controllers will probably be distracted by some other arguement they have no vested interest in. This is a very important issue to a lot of ppl. Just google controller support for any pc game that doesnt have it and you will see.
    If you still dont believe me my character name in gw2 is Abaddon Exterminan. I will pvp you or run dungeon or just do cartwheels in front of you so I can prove it once and for all. I will also be back to my characters in FFXIV (Tarra Firma) when ARR comes out this summer. If you want to see my whitemage or paladin in action.
    Paterk likes this.

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