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Crafting as a legitimate means of leveling

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by BlueDragon18, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. madrabbit

    madrabbit Cupcake

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    Nice argument.

    I'm discussing my opinion on a discussion board, not claiming to know what will or won't be.

    I think you're a bit confused here. You seem to be saying that I am against exactly what I described that I am an advocate of. Making player exp something that isn't simply a one way street by adding multiple ways to gain said exp sounds like what I wrote earlier perhaps, and I'm not exactly sure how you came to the conclusion that I am wanting less options for player exp. Perhaps you misread my posts. Either way, I'm glad to amuse you.
  2. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    The idea is goofy. Where is the logic in this idea?
    How does sewing or weed picking make you better at fighting?

    If
    Crafting XP -> Adventure XP
    then we want
    Adventure XO-> Crafting XP

    OR we could call a truce & scarp both of these stupid ideas! :) :)


    Actually we already know what will happen.
    The dev already said Crafting XP -> Adventure XP idea is bad!
  3. madrabbit

    madrabbit Cupcake

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    Alright, rehash time.

    Yes, I posted that. I'll be closing with that since you guys are trying to put me on a side of the argument that I don't exactly agree with.

    Also, the dev said crafting won't be a "significant" source of exp, and did not say it won't be a source at all. Or were you talking about another post? At any rate I'm tired of discussing about crafting since my interests lie elsewhere.
  4. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok then, I'll rephrase, assuming that you do agree that if crafting should reward adventuring XP, then adventuring should also reward crafting XP, then how many mobs do you think you should have to kill to max out your tailoring skill entirely through combat? I mean, if you adventure enough to reach level cap without ever even attempting crafting, should you have accumulated enough crafting experience to max out a crafting discipline? Enough crafting XP to halfway max a craft?

    I mean, in GW2, if you maxed out a craft it would give you 10 levels worth of adventuring XP as a side effect. To be fair, conversely, if you ran quests and killed mobs to gain ten levels, then you should obviously max out a crafting skill as a consequence, right?

    edit: I'm aware that you don't agree with the quantity of XP that GW2 handed out, but you do seem comfortable with the concept of it, at least, so if perhaps maxing a craft only gave 1 level of adventuring XP, then would you be comfortable with gaining ten levels in adventuring offering maybe 1/10th of maxing out a craft?
  5. madrabbit

    madrabbit Cupcake

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    If it's enjoyable and makes any kind of reasonable sense then I am all for it.

    Gaining a slight amount of leveling experience for crafting makes sense to me. I don't understand the comparison between the gaining of crafting levels from fighting mobs and exploring to gaining slight exp from leveling a crafting profession. The disconnect here is that we have different opinions on what overall player and levels should come from. For instance, if you can gain a significant amount of leveling exp from PvP, why should that make you a better explorer, or better at killing mobs? It just does. It's all interconnected. When you level a crafting profession for you character, you are advancing that character as you are getting real experiences that would make your character better in the world, which should theoretically equate to overall exp or character level. It's true that sewing should not make your character better at fighting mobs, but that is the limit of the game. Unless they want to make separate exp bars for every single thing like PvP exp, mob killing exp, questing exp, crafting exp, exploring exp, etc. Then things would probably be a bit confusing.

    Um, this is a discussion not a battlefield. There are no stakes here.

    Also, I'm bored sue me.
  6. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't care if people get a small amount of xp from crafting as long as it is nearly insignificant.
    No SWG get to max level in town stuff. :)
  7. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    What's difficult to understand, it's a simple two-way street. If you should gain adventuring XP from crafting then why shouldn't you earn crafting XP from adventuring in equivalent quantities? It's like saying that you understand how one might take food and convert it into money via commerce, but claiming to not understand how one could possible convert money into food via commerce.Why should crafters be given bonus candy for crafting, on top of getting better at crafting, while adventurers should not?

    Personally, I wouldn't mind in the least if PvP did not contribute to your PvE level, but assuming I'll be ignored on that one by the preponderance of PvPers out there, so I'll point out that fighting another player is fundamentally the same as fighting a mob, swinging yours sword at things is swinging yours sword at things, and the experience of the one would typically apply to the other. Crafting a breastplate is an activity that has very little to do with killing monsters though.

    Consider it like real life, if you're good at hunting people, you'll probably be pretty good at hunting animals too, while if you're VERY good at knitting sweaters, that doesn't necessarily translate to being an awesome warrior.
  8. madrabbit

    madrabbit Cupcake

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    Well, I feel like you aren't understanding what I'm writing. So I'll call it a night. I'm pretty sure I explained my thoughts on everything in the questions you just asked me in a previous post already.

    Maybe someone else will continue the discussion.
    Livnthedream likes this.
  9. kongpong

    kongpong Cupcake

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    Neverwinter allowed XP gain from crafting and they also had a cash shop...so they had a person that hit max level in less than 8 hours because he was able to buy all his Mats + Craft...granted it took a lot of cash out of his pocket but he did it. I know that's off topic but wanted to share and I think XP from crafting is okay as long as it is limited from something like the said above.
  10. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's too bad WS isn't using a skill system like that. I like it when mmos use several interdependent skills rather then one big EXP bar. (Again, RS being a good example with it's 2 dozen skills that you can level independently of each other, but each skill also giving you upgrades you can use in other skills. Like using your summoning skill to summon a yack to help you mine.)
  11. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Because "adventuring XP" is not real, its a term made up by you. "Experience" is the actual term. And yes, logically it makes sense that if you are crafting something in the world you are living in, that you are gaining experience as a contributing member of that world, and thus your experience bar goes up.

    Killing a mob also logically grants you "world experience", but there is no logical connection between killing a mob and gaining crafting experience.
  12. Saleex

    Saleex New Cupcake

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    This ^
    End.
  13. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ehh, I think it's a bit too wishy-washy to say that all life experience applies equally to other tasks. If someone graduates law school, I would not want them to operate on my unless they'd also graduated medical school.

    If I go along with your theory of it though, that crafting should raise the XP that is good for hitting things with, then I think it's only fair that hitting things should equally raise your ability to craft, and whatever progress a character can make towards level cap via crafting alone, it's only fair that he should be able to make equal progress towards maxing his chosen crafts through hitting things alone.

    That's just a double standard that you agree with because you agree with it. There's no logical basis to it. You can EITHER say that hitting things should raise hitting things XP and crafting things should raise crafting things XP, OR you can say that working on either task raises both, but you can't have it both ways.
  14. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Whether you go to law school or med school, you gain life experience either way. Killing mobs or crafting items both give you "game life" experience. You're right that that going to law school doesn't make you a medical doctor, just like killing a mob doesn't make you a crafter.

    I fully expect you to ignore this point.
  15. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    So you admit that being a lawyer won't help you in surgery.
    So why don't you see that being a doctor won't help you in court? :)

    Isn't it ironic that u criticize his made up term & then make up ur own?
    This is semantics regardless. You know what the term meant!
    By the logic of world experience, roleplaying should grant you xp as well.
    There is also no logical connection between crafting a sweater and gaining COMBAT experience.
    This is what leveling is about.
    Being more adept at combat.
    /thread :)
  16. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Thats the entire point. People like yourself and other posters are the ones sticking to your own notion of what "experience" is. You define it as purely combat; that is an opinion not a fact set in stone.

    I wouldn't have a problem with RP granting XP if there was some way to actually measure it.

    Your experience bar is not a measure of combat, or crafting, or RP, or any other one thing. Its a measure of the fact that you are experiencing multiple facets of the world, and thus gaining overall experience as a player in the world.
    Witless and Livnthedream like this.
  17. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Again, you reject one subjective definition & declare your own to be superior. :)

    In this game, we KNOW that the primary point of leveling is to make your character more powerful for combat.
    We already have confirmation that crafting won't be a significant source of XP as well.
    Thus my definition, leveling -> combat proficiency, is based on reality.

    Your definition on the other hand is based on a sandbox MMO.
    Wildstar is not a sandbox MMO. Thank goodness! :)
    Therefore your definition is bollocks. :)
  18. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok, fair enough. So then what if they separate it out. Have three pools of "experience" in the game. First, you have adventuring experience. This comes from adventuring, things like combat, exploration, completing quests, basically getting out there in the world and doing stuff. Raising this XP makes you better at doing these things. Then you have crafting XP, raised by crafting, and used to do crafting better. Then you have this "life experience," which is raised by both, and doesn't actually do anything because it is just a representation of your "game life" rather than your actual skill at any particular task.

    Would that work for you? Personally, I don't see the point of tracking this third bar, but you seem rather insistent on it for some reason.

    Traditionally, most games use "experience" synonymously with "adventuring experience," the ranking of how good you are at combat. I admit to coining the term for this thread (although it's likely been used before), but the principle it describes has been in effect in most games of the past. If you gain ten levels of "experience" then you become ten levels better at adventuring, but not necessarily ten levels better at doing anything that isn't adventuring that might be in the game. You're trying to re-purpose this as "life experience" that is raised by anything, but that still mostly benefits adventuring, and I'm not seeing why that is a reasonable double standard to have.

    Fair enough, but don't you agree that our notion of experience makes a lot more sense? Doesn't it make far more sense for adventuring to make you better at adventuring, but not necessarily at knitting sweaters, while knitting sweaters would make you better at knitting sweaters, but not necessarily at adventuring? Why do you believe that knitting sweaters should make you better at adventuring? What is the logic behind that? In what real world sense does mastery of one field of study lead to mastering in a completely unrelated field of study?

    So do you, or do you not agree that filling this XP bar should automatically raise your crafting skills, even if you are not using crafting skills to raise it?
  19. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Im basing mine on what the developers have said.

    XP is primarily gained through killing things, yes. In that sense your definition is based on reality. But that is not the only thing XP is gained from, which is my entire point.
    Livnthedream likes this.
  20. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    The WS developers clearly said you won't get much xp from crafting. It was in this very thread! :)
    So what developers are you talking about?
    EQ Next?

    Yes, you also get xp from questing and exploring.
    That is why Ohoni called it adventuring XP.
    This is not a sandbox & the decision has already been made regarding crafting & xp. :)
    So I am not even sure what ur arguing for at this point.
    Do u want to be able to level from 1 to 60 from inside town?

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