Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by John, Mar 13, 2013.
Having options of any kind with the LFG tool will make it better than the norm. It won't make everyone completely happy but it's in my mind a good start to a medium between the two sides of the discussion.
the LFG tool attempts to group you with only people from your server first and then after a set time it will fill the rest of your group from a different server, trying to keep as many people from the same server as possible?
so you queue up with a friend, one of you is dps, one is lets say a healer. the LFG tool attempts to find people from your server, so it grabs persons A and B one's a tank ones a dps. tool can't find another from your server within the allotted time period (2 mins? 5mins? shouldn't be too long) then pulls person C dps from another server.
or, you queue up by yourself dps. LFG tool gives you persons D, E from your server, both DPS. no tanks or healers can be found within the allotted time, so it pulls both person F and G from the different server, they're server mates.
Well the issue is that LFD tools are made to save time, x-realm more so, and implementing a realm priority system would probably add a significant wait time.
I don't think it would cause many issues if the tool searches for players on your server for the first two or three minutes and switches to cross-server afterwards.
Man, I hadn't thought of that. You guys are smart.
Well, that's the trade-off. Much like there are people who feel that cross-realm matchmaking is a trade-off of shorter wait times to do a dungeon but sacrifices a part of server community interaction, this system is sacrificing the shorter wait times in order to meet fellow members of their server in a dungeon environment. This is not for everyone but there might as well form a following of people around this option. I can even imagine it being a way guilds try to find members they'd like to recruit for raiding. So yes, what you said is true and people have openly acknowledged this, but that doesn't mean it has to be a bad thing for those willing to take that sacrifice.
My point is, if you're willing to wait that extra time, why not just use that time to ask in General Chat if anyone wants to run a dungeon or two?
I mean even if only one or two people join that's still one or two people from your server you're running with, and less people to wait for in the queue!
Another perk I haven't seen in this thread is that if you DO forgo using the x-realm LFG tool and make your own group: Manually formed groups will generally do multiple runs together, thus eliminating queue times and making a same-server priority wait time seem silly!
I wrote about that in my suggestion to Carbine that I just linked above:
Perhaps even better would be if the LFG tool had a(n optional?) chat like in traditional lobby games, so players could talk to one another, inspect one another, and coordinate before joining a dungeon. Getting dumped into one all of a sudden with complete strangers is part of the problem, bc you can often learn a lot from a player just from a few seconds of chat (are they rude/insulting, are they knowledgeable, friendly...). I actually prefer LFG chat bc it allows you to do the above which most LFG tools in mmos do not allow for. Just having a global LFG channel in the chat might be enough to help those of us who want to do it the 'traditional' way.
I'd agree except for the gear part. If there is a gear level gate on queueing and they passed it, then that should be enough. Last thing we need are elitists kicking people for not having the best gear.
But what would you do if I queue as a warrior tank and pass the gear level check by wearing all + strength armor?
At that point It's a developer issue to gate by gear type, but in my experience that is a rare occurrence, and after someone is kicked for it once they'll probably not try it again.
I think this is a really cool idea!
This is totally dependant on how gear-reliant the game is going to be. In the past, games like WoW and Lotro had gear requirements where if you did not meet them, you wiped your raid. Plain and simple. So you had a choice: get people who were properly geared into the raid, or "be nice" for fear of the big E-word and wipe all night. I know what I'd rather do. Especially when getting the appropriate gear was not unreasonable to begin with (esp Lotro), but did require you to run a number of instances which had you learn certain mechanics you would need to understand for said later raid. If someone would rather get an undergeared group together and try to run a raid, all power to them. Hell, they might have a blast and overcome great odds. Just leave properly geared people out of it, unless they are explicitly willing to carry the rest (which some people are).
Now, be that as it may, some people are properly geared and they will still wipe your raid simply bc they are uninformed, or poor players, or selfish, ignorant, etc. This is why the chat and inspection is important, imo, not only for "do they have the requirements" but for that human touch that simple "gear ratings" can never cover.
Anecdotal example. I once knew a bloke who had all the best gear there was to have outside of the final raid, but he was terrible. Just awful. He was extremely arrogant, pushy, and worst of all, completely ignorant as to many of the core mechanics of the game. He was a DPSer and he would commit the cardinal sin of his class at the time which was building for damage for raids, not threat-reduction and cooldown reduction. Why was this so bad? Well, his class had so much base-dps they really did not need the extra damage in raids. What they needed was threat-reduction. And it showed, bc he was constantly pulling aggro during the final raid that his guild couldn't complete (worse yet, he'd be proud of it), and blaming it on the tanks. His guild struggled for months to complete a raid that pugged groups from global LFG were one-shotting.
So yeah, perfect example that I don't mean meets gear req = someone I want to group with. But it can be very important, depending on the systems in play.
Another anecdotal example: I was running an instance in WoW with some friends during WotLK just for the haw-haws (my friend wanted a fluff item, three of us were helping out). Now, these instances had been so nerfed and our friends were so well-geared and such good players we were steamrolling this, they really didn't need more than two players to get it done, but we grabbed a pug just to have it go a bit faster. I got a phone-call from a family member and ended up on the phone for the first 10 mins or so, which meant I was playing very little. Didn't matter, my friends were <REDACTED>ing around trying to pull as many groups as possible at once bc they were so bored. But our pug started raging at my low dps output. He was just infuriated at how low it was. I explained I was on the phone and clearly we weren't having a problem in the instance, but he wouldn't let up. My friends told him to leave me alone (they didn't mind me slacking since I was just tagging along and wouldn't be rolling) but he went on about it. So I told him he could leave if he didn't like it, which he did. Did it make a difference to us? No. We finished the instance still pulling multiple groups at once and facerolling through it. My friend got his fluff item and voila.
What's my point? Both are examples of what I would call "misguided elitism," talking the talk when the person him/herself doesn't walk the walk, or elitism where it isn't necessary.
And chat and inspection alleviates both of those things, I think, by helping you get a sense for the person.
Now while I understand what you're saying, and agree to an extent, I think you missed two key aspects of what I was getting at!
1. This is assuming that you must meet a high enough level of gear, appropriate to the level of content, in order to queue.
2. If you want full control of who you bring to a group, then you should be forming the group yourself, not hitting a "Join" button and praying for a miracle! Skill level of players falls well within the realm of "random" in the group finder.
The random group tool is meant for speed and convenience, not building the perfect group. A solution to this is to have the "Classing LFG Tool" IN ADDITION to the group-finder, where people post in a UI element what they're looking to do, what role they're trying to fill, and from there you can talk to them, invite them, and get a more personal feel for who you're inviting!
I'll just dump my wall of text here, it's my personal opinions on what i dislike/concerned about from reading the Reddit AMA.
One Weapon per Class.
Limited hotbard with 10 skills only.
"PvP Bolstering" = Bumps up your character to match everyone else.
10 skills to put on our hotbar feels quite limited because you will have the "mandatory" ones filling up your hotbar. e.g for a healer (Builder, Spender, Heal, CC) so it leaves you with like 6 or less slots open for whatever skills you'd like this is atleast how it was in TSW were you had 7 slots it became quite repetive even though we had hundreds of skills to choose from and allso different weapons.
PvP Bolstering of characters is for balancing purposes obviously and it's nice and all. But it makes it impossible to do twink characters wich i like to do sometimes, and wierdly i like to try defeating higher level players as lower level as it's so satisfactory coming out as the winner.
X-Realm PvP/PvE I asume it will be for both? Anyways, this is probably the thing i dislike the most, i call it the "community killer" they said there will be tools to keep track with the people you meet, but i can't imagine that will happen alot once the game has been out for a couple of months, "Bob" will join a random dungeon it will be zero communication in the group except some profanity then some new random faces will appear the next run.
Isn't that like one of the top things people are complaining about in WoW? That it feels like running instances with bots that say nothing unless anyone makes a mistake.
Still interested to hear more about Wildstar, everything else seems very good and exactly what i was looking for. It just had to be the mayor game machanics that i don't particularly like.
Agreed, which is why part of my suggestion was to include a global LFG channel for those of us who wanna do it the old fashioned way.
Yeah would be great if it used the expanding search feature, Where it starts with only your server and then after x amount of time it broadens the search to x realm servers. I would be perfectly fine with that system. I don't mind waiting a few mins but I am not going to sit on my hands for 30mins because there are not any tanks on my frigin server.
It's good they have this at start! I hope they have server transfers the same way GW2 used to.
But why even force players that want the quickest way possible, which is cross server, into having to wait on a less efficient option before switching? Seems a little unfriendly to both sides of this issue.
If there's going to be multiple choices, might as well let the player be the one to choose and not the amount of tmie they had to wait already make an autonomous decision either way.