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Dealing damage as a healer

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by hopscotch, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Dwel

    Dwel Cupcake

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    I primarily play healers in MMOs and I have to say I enjoy both the "trinity" approach to it (i.e. healers just heal) like in WoW, and the "non-trinity" approach where healing tends to be a side-effect of DPSing (Guild Wars 2, Warhammer Online).

    Both can be enjoyable in PvE and PvP depending on the encounter / challenge, though I'd like to see the "non-trinity" approach more than the "trinity" one.
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  2. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    I played a Resto Druid through out all of WoW: Cataclysm raiding content.I'm totally fine with however they choose to use healers.

    The way I see it though, the way they go with heals can completely alter dungeon/raid content. If there are dedicated healers, then every single boss/mob has to deal consistent damage, or else the healer is wasted.

    If they go the way of healing utility, suddenly a greater variety of fighting styles emerge. If the healer isn't glued to a tank, then the tank can interact with people differently, damage can be more spread, more avoidable, etc.

    Throughout Cataclysm fights were designed in a way such that:
    Blackwing Depths:
    "Hey, this fight the hunter doesn't need to even to damage, just focus on crowd control"
    "Have a melee guy go grab that spike!"
    "Tank doesn't need to even attack, just keep someone distracted"

    Firelands:
    "Dps the giant's feet until he falls!"
    "Have the mage become a giant friggin firebird and play f'ing mariocart in the sky while divebombing mobs on the ground"

    Dragon Soul:
    "All melee play ping pong!"
    "Simon Says!"

    EVERY RAID EVER:
    "Healer, just spam heal the tank. If a dps needs a heal he's doing it wrong"
    Designed a fight where raid takes damage? "spam AoE heal the tank. If a dps isn't in the circle he's doing it wrong"



    When I heard the heals are highly telegraphed I got excited, because perhaps I'll be part of the raid!

    YAY!
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  3. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    One thing that would be interesting would be if they make their heals so that they aren't spam able. If each of your healing spells has a cool down then you're not just going to use one to top off the tank, which brings more choice - should you top off the tank now and waste the cd or should you wait and do some dps while the tank gets a bit lower.

    That tied with getting charges or w/e while you attack to make your heals stronger can really bring an interesting mix of strategies.

    I really hope its not a case of "heal as much as you can wherever you can" because while that can be entertaining its really too easy in most situations.
  4. Shaigh

    Shaigh Cupcake

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    I do enjoy having to split my attention between the boss and healing, but most of the time your damage is pathetic as a healer which makes it pointless to bother so you are better off just focusing on healing and forced to do nothing when damage is low. Getting buffs on next heals do give reasons to swap damage on the boss which makes it better than doing nothing.

    I don't enjoy the disc priest WoW and chloromancer in Rift because they are really damage dealers that gives good healing. Chloro damage through healing was also crazy OP, they outhealed clerics when they spammed damage on boss.

    Most of all I would rather actively provide buffs, either through active mana regains for your group, or doing 15 seconds attack speed buffs when i'm not healing, or by debuffing the boss so it takes takes more and deal less damage. (healer disguised as a bard).
  5. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, just really anything that is a viable alternative to sitting there spamming heals or waiting to use a heal would be good.

    With the telegraph system they can have a variety of aoe buffs that could be really interesting.
  6. pondfilter

    pondfilter Cupcake

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    Well they'll have to be careful if they decide on doing it like that, since the game offers both PvE and PvP. They will always have to balance it out for both sides. We don't know anything about how fast someone dies and/or how much damage people/mobs do. Whereas the non-spammable heals might work in PvE, they might not work in PvP since the damage output could be too high. But it doesn't only depend on that, we'll have to see how much CC is involved in the game, how much survability every class has etc. Perhaps it's perfectly possible to live without constant heals. Time will tell.
  7. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well that would just be a nerf to your healing output in pvp then. You'd still be able to keep someone alive for longer (we just don't know how much longer) and in your down time you'd put in more cc orientated abilities.

    With the 7 slot system they can have very flexible skills to allow pve healers to choose to load them all up with different healing abilities and pvp healers to get a mix of cc / survivability / healing. Or if you need a healing / dps hybrid you should be able to do that too (either through buffing allies or dealing damage yourself). The limited slots really opens up so much more choice.
  8. pondfilter

    pondfilter Cupcake

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    Assuming you get those, atleast. There is pretty much nothing known about the spells, right? It's something that bothers me a little when you give every class the option to do everything. If you've played WoW in the early days you'll know what I mean when I mention Wound Poison and Mortal Strike. Later on pretty much every class received a -% healing debuff taken and that upset a lot of people.

    7 slots isn't that much actually, I expected to get some more.
    1. Standard heal (quick to cast, medium/low amount of heal)
    2. Big heal (long to cast, probably AoE too)
    3. Dispel?
    4. Buff?
    5. Buff?
    6. Standard mediocre damaging spell
    7. A slow or a stun?
    And you're already capped on skills. If you give the heals a cooldown, you won't be able to keep people alive since the big heal will most likely be able to get interrupted.
  9. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't think they are going to do buffs in the traditional sense, so those 2 slots can be a bit more versatile.

    They can also make dual target skills, so if you target your heal on an enemy then it will damage them, that opens up another slot.

    I'm also not sure how dispels will work, though I would still have a slot for something along those lines.

    When thinking of skills you have to try not to think like another MMO. From some of the videos that I've seen it seems like there is the option for charge skills, so the longer you hold them the greater effect they give, which can make things much more versatile (think only having 1 healing spell).

    Really with some minor engine adjustments they could make their spell system quite deep so by only having the 7 skills you aren't losing out on much. If you played Guildwars 1 you'd know how versatile 8 slots can be and that was released in 2005.

    Edit: And most of those healing spells had some kind of cooldown.
  10. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I think this is true, unless there's a buffer healer (like the Bard in Rift) that does lots of powerful shorter duration buffs (Or Heroism/BL in WoW), the actual long duration buffs may go on another bar in much the same way they've said they're doing cosmetics and racials, where they don't actually count towards your abilities.
  11. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    I've always done dps on my healers - you're not always going to be juggling global cooldowns so dpsing when you have nothing better to do is always worth it (unless for some reason it puts you/the raid in danger - ie getting into range for a chaining boss ability etc).
    If you are just regenerating resources there's normally some form of auto-attack/non resource using ability you can use. If resources aren't a problem for the fight then I'll use 'proper' dps skills too.

    Doing nothing at all is slacking no matter what role you play :laugh: (unless waiting for a specific event that requires critical timing ie a vital interrupt/shield/block etc).
  12. jimmy

    jimmy New Cupcake

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    the loadout is 10 slots not 7

    Unless this has changed
  13. Sneakybuffalo

    Sneakybuffalo Cupcake-About-Town

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    Someone hasn't read the patch notes :p

    Don't forget all of the spells that add Interupt Armor. Healers will need to take those it seems.

    And we can likely get an idea of how healing works from the patch notes but I don't feel like breaking it down atm
  14. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would at least not want to have to constantly spam the same spell, as long as I have to cast other spells (be it damage or healing) I'll have fun with that, but if I can heal decently just using the single spell for 95% of the time then I'll get REALLY bored.
  15. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    7 Buttons.

    I'm still VERY worried about the LMA. They always praise how they don't want you to only press 1-2-3...We all know (well...People who do know a bit 'bout MMO's) that this is how it will go and they can't do anything about it...There will always be THE rotation of spells people will use and THE best damage specc.

    I think giving us less buttons makes this even worse, turning this into a MOBA like LoL. There are champs on there who have more abilities, for christs sake...

    Especially tanking - imagine having 1 taunt, 1 gapcloser, 2-3 dps abilities and 2-3 defense abilities, that's it.
    Yeah I'll spam the dps abilities by mashing my hand on 3-5 and then when I become low on HP I will press the cooldowns once.

    Sounds reeeeeally exciting. Ugh.

    Same goes for healing. Have fun healing with 2-3 buttons as you WILL need some cooldowns. Either that or I miss out on something.

    I remember never knowing the REAL strat. I always nuked down the boss as mage, hehe :D

    ...Also Dragonsoul was no fun and no challenge, neither in Heroic nor in normal.
  16. jimmy

    jimmy New Cupcake

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    ooops :-P
  17. duet

    duet Cupcake

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    Healers should have the option to dps, it opens up a lot of interesting play in pvp. It doesn't even have to be direct dps with no healing, if you've ever played TSW I loved how assault rifle healing worked, everytime you attacked it also healed your focus target for a small amount. Granted both the dmg and healing was low but that scenario has its place in a lot of questing/pve/pvp environments (it was also a combo point/resource generator so there is that).

    With WS's combat system and telegraphs, people really shouldn't be taking that much damage anyways..
  18. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, my Dervish/Monk in Guild Wars only has 8 skills and one of those is taken up by a rez signet..

    It's still super fun, have to manage 5 different enchants, have an auto attack type skill and a simple aoe.

    This is in a game that doesn't have any extra items, path skills or racials to use on top of the 7.
  19. Shaigh

    Shaigh Cupcake

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    I agree, its boring to spam same heals, and change in design is why it happened.

    Healing used to be mostly about effectiveness and mana conservation, and you simply couldn't spam the same heal before, either you ran out of mana because it wasn't effective enough, or the person died because your output was too low.

    Nowadays its mostly just about pushing out heals quick enough, and the risk of running oom simply doesn't happen unless you are undergeared.
  20. Nintarie

    Nintarie New Cupcake

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    I'm not gonna lie, I've always liked healing because it makes me feel like an important part of the raid, as arrogant as that sounds, it's true. I like the pressure it puts on me to ensure that I'm keeping people alive with my X amount of healer buddies. I get that same excitement from Tanking, but I never have from DPSing, despite that being an important role in it's own right.

    I would prefer boss encounters that are very heal intensive and really puts the pressure on healers to min-max and really focus on what they're doing instead of making things so lax that healers have time to throw some DPS in too. That results in a boring encounter to me, can't speak for anyone else, but I like to be kept on my toes.
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