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Describe your favorite ingame crafting system

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Brotoi, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Brotoi

    Brotoi Cupcake-About-Town

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    We don't know how crafting will be implemented in WildStar, but we do know it will exist. We also know that Carbine Stuios developers visit these forums occasionally. Instead of speculating about what kind of crafting system you'd like to see implemented, I suggest describing your favorite ingame crafting system. Avoid hypotheticals and maybes. Just describe an existing system and explain why you like it.

    For example: Wish

    I've played a number of games with crafting systems. Even City of Heroes added a system for crafting enhancements. My favorite system was implemented in a now defunct game called "Wish".

    In Wish everyone could cook. Cooking was a basic crafting skill that could be improved, but did not need to be added nor did you need to seek out a trainer. You improved Cooking by experimentation alone.

    Fishing, as well, was automatic. Everyone had the skill. To develop it you had to build a pole and "tackle" and then combine them into a "working fishing pole". As you spent more time fishing your skill increased and you could buy or build better poles and tackle.

    Everyone, regardless of class, could choose up to two crafting skills. These skills were divided into broad groups with various specialities. For example, my character chose "Resource gathering" with a specialization in "Mining". My character was a mage so by choosing "Mining" I could improve both strength and intelligence. Most mages went with "Resource gathering - Botany" and then chose "Trade Skill - Alchemy". I wanted to improve both strength and stamina so that my character could explore more territory without being forced to rest, eat, and so on. So I added "Blacksmithing" as my "Trade Skill". By the second week of beta testing I had more strength and stamina than most warriors!

    Cooking:
    Cooking was a blast! Even though my character specialized in Mining, I still had access to basic levels in other Resource Gathering skills. I got an axe and chopped down a lot of trees. This was the easiest way to acquire Wood and different kinds of wood produced different kinds of fires. Pine or Willow produced a short-lived very hot fire while Hickory or Ash produced a long-burning, milder fire that was still suitable for cooking. Mostly I collected Hickory because it added flavor to everything cooked with it.

    Some other items that could be gathered were cinnamon, cloves, peppers (several types), salt, ginger, corriander, and other spices. Different grasses or shrubs produced grains such as wheat, rice, barley, and even hops (for making beer, naturally!). Onions, bellpeppers, and tomatoes were also found in the wild.

    Meat came from monsters that were killed in the course of gameplay. In addition to monsters, there were wild cattle, geese, chickens, sheep, and so on. There were some domesticated animals, but killing them caused the local NPCs to come out and attack you. Killing food animals produced lots of meat and little experience. Killing monsters produced lots of experience but little meat. Some meat spoiled very quickly, some slowly.

    To cook, first you built a fire. Once you had the fire going, a mortar and pestle appeared to use for mixing ingredients. Meat, grains, and spices went into the mortar and then over the fire. If you chose ingredients carefully, you got back a food item as well as a reusable recipe. If not, you got back cooked meat, cooked grain, and burnt spices. Cooked meat lasted longer than raw meat. Some merchants would not accept raw meat, only cooked meat.

    Blacksmithing was a multi-step process. First you had to acquire metal, metal & leather, or metal & wood. You could also add things like bauxite to improve the quality of the metal. Once you had items that you thought could be combined, you had to find a forge. Most towns had a Blacksmith with a forge you could use. Conversely, you could build your own, but it had a timer and vanished after a short while. I used to make a lot of copper shields, but my Mining normally only produced iron and bauxite, so I had to trade for copper.

    The Forge had an "items" window that appeared when clicked on. Copper, bauxite, wood, and leather went into the window, unless you had a recipe, then the recipe went into the window. If you put the items into the window and then clicked "Combine", you got back an item and a recipe for making that item, as well as any unused materials. The first time I got an "Improved Copper Shield" recipe, for example, it was an accident. I put Copper and Wood into the window to craft a "Basic Copper Shield", then tossed in some bauxite and leather just because I hadn't found anyone who wanted to trade for it. My character was the first to offer "Improved Copper Shields" and they quickly became very popular!

    Once you had a recipe, you made sure the items it required were in your personal storage (usually a pouch of some kind). You put the recipe into the Items window and clicked "Combine". The materials were deducted from your personal supply and you got back the item and your recipe.

    That's how I remember it anyway. If I'm off by a couple details here and there I do apologize.
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  2. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    It has been so long since I played an MMO that I can't remember a lot of the crafting. I remember fishing and Cooking in WoW were decent and I liked the quests to get to Master or whatever it was.

    The thing I don't like most crafting systems you don't get to really experiment. Wish sounds like it had that. When I played Horizons, I remember liking their crafting system, but it has been so long I can't even remember why.
  3. VooDoo

    VooDoo Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd have to say Vanguard.

    My favorite part of it was that it required a completely different set of gear, yet it stayed on your paper doll and auotmatically equipped when you began crafting. Even though different tools were required, if you had the tool in your belt it would see this and use the proper tool. I also liked how they turned it into somewhat of a mini-game, similiar to everquest 2 but much more involved.

    My second choice is Horizons. The thing that both Vanguard and Horizons had in common is that groups of crafters from different professions could cooperate and build large structures such as buildings and even ships to sail around with.

    I dont necessarily want or require an MMO to have a massive crafting system, I actually think simple and easily accessible crafting can be very entertaining such the crafting in Warhammer or Champions Online.

    Some things that turn me off about crafting is when an MMO puts a limit on how far you can level your crafting based on your combat level. I know it makes sense because typically resources are zone level specific, its just not logical to me. I also dont like that in most MMO's the items you're crafting as you level are usually inferior to the items you earn from questing. This turns crafting into a complete grind where you're only creating items to get to the "end game" of crafting and not really crafting items that are useful. To make it worse, these levelling items you create usually only resell for a fraction of what it cost to create. In many cases, I think MMO's have us creating too much of something cheapening its worth and can feel like a job more than fun.
  4. Autumnal

    Autumnal Cupcake-About-Town

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    One thing I DON'T like about a lot of crafting systems is the "Limit 2, per customer" aspect of crafting, where a game has several crafting 'paths', and you can only select 2 (where one is almost automatically a 'resource gathering' component to supply your actual 'building' craft. (example: I choose 'forging', so I have to choose 'mining' to supply the resources)

    Now, I understand from an Player Economy standpoint, there's always the "Well, you have to buy resources outside your skill for higher end items". Taking the above 'forging' example, I am now forced to beg/borrow/indenture myself to a science crafter to get a 2x "Laser stun modules" to make my "Uber Epic StunLaser Sword of Awesomeness", which means *my* crafting is now dependent on someone else's gameplay. Combine that with necessary components that "only drop in rare instances", and you have a crafting system that stalls, at high levels.

    It's my opinion that any single character, with enough patience and effort, should be able to (eventually) learn all crafting paths, just like any person IRL can learn to speak more than 2 languages, if they are so inclined. I know from 'ye olden days' that crafting , for some, was how THEY played a mmo, along with your pseudo-business suit Aution Sharks who made real-life auction monitors, and profited off speculation.

    Would being "Omni-craftable" be easy? Heck no. I can easily envision a "You must level you current crafting paths to 'X' before learning another" requirement. However, the "Crafting Path" is one that, although doesn't tie directly into the 'kill 10 rats" gameplay equation, requires it's own depth, and not just as afterthought.

    Carbine has already stated (forget where, now), that Crafting will be "Stuff you actually *want*, and not just NPC vendor, afterwards", and I think that's an excellent sign. Thank the Fates we have real gamers at Carbine, because posts like this are *hopefully* already redundant after being discussed ad naseum in the boardroom.
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  5. Khalm

    Khalm New Cupcake

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    I really liked cooking in WoW. Did not like daily cooking quests for those northern spices though, but the idea of buff foods that sold to raiders for alot of money was kinda neat.
  6. Pontianak

    Pontianak Cupcake

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    In WoW, I was a fan of Engineering. I loved how it allowed me to make kookie and crazy items that did weird things. Also enjoyed the mounts that you could make, but never really could afford the high costs of the Engineering mounts until the next expansion, which was a real bummer for me.
  7. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with Autumnal about being able to learn all the crafting paths if you so choose.
    I also love the idea of reaching "X" skill level with one path before able to pick up the next.

    It would easily allow for players to have more to do in the game aside from their quests and whatnot. Hell, I know if I could have I would have made a Priest who could not only Tailor, but be an Alchemist, too. Also, one thing I did like was gathering. But I would like to be able to gather EVERYTHING. If I'm out exploring or whatever and I come across a flower, let me pick the damn thing. If by the flower there happens to be a radiated earthworm, let me kill it and skin it.
    Once I'm done with that I continue on my way, fall down a cliff and land next to a mining node. Let me mine the <REDACTED>...
    Maybe I'm being selfish, but, why not? In life I can pick flowers, kill worms, and pick up rocks.
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  8. Nonsensicles

    Nonsensicles Cupcake-About-Town

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    My favourite crafting system, though it has some massive flaws in execution, is Fallen Earth's. Everyone has access to every craft immediately, though how good you are at them is limited by build. (Sadly, it's the same stat pairing for each, which means not a lot of differentiation between dedicated crafters.)

    Crafting often takes a long time compared to other games, but the process is passive once begun and includes a queue system to automatically start new items once each is finished. While this is happening, you can continue to play your character without the crafting preventing or otherwise interfering with anything else you might do. It continues even when not playing, so many crafters choose to log out in crafting facilities that speed the process. This process is something I'd like to see echoed by WildStar, and it makes a certain amount of sense with the high tech setting: Imagine crafting relies on the use of hand-portable manufacturing devices that require minimal supervision as they direct nanites to produce molecule-perfect results from the designs selected and materials supplied.

    Obviously, basing crafting skill on stat points, even if using more diverse options, won't work for WildStar. I'm thinking that rather the list of craftable items should be based on Path. Everyone can gather every type of crafting ingredient and can make items of all kinds. The specific benefits and visuals of items a character crafts would however be based on characteristics appropriate to the Path.

    For example, Soldiers might tend to produce very straightforward, functional and focused items; Explorers make items with qualities such enhanced speed, range, endurance, mobility or resistance; Scientists could have a profusion of experimental goods with strange, perhaps even random effects; and Settlers' wares would perhaps emphasise defence, recovery and support. In this way, trading for gear manufactured by other Paths becomes natural as what's best for you isn't necessarily what you can make, but it's not mandated as you can always make something decent. Certainly doesn't hurt that what you make should look the most appropriate to your Path.

    Doing it this way, I'd also suggest abolishing separate skills for crafting entirely. Make Path level the factor which determines your capacity to learn a new schematic, and grant some Path experience points from crafting, even if only a trickle. The division of crafts seen in other games would be nothing more than a way to organise the list under this arrangement. Basically, the idea is to have welcoming simplicity on the surface, with a load of intricacies in the actual fun parts of crafting: The items themselves.
  9. Zinn

    Zinn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would love to see many features from the best crafting games in one game. Particulary the dynamic events Horizons used.

    1. Crafting mechanics - Vanguard - Crafting is close to fighting a mob where decisions effect the quality of the item being made. I also love work orders for gaining xp rather than making the same item over and over.

    2. Dynamic world changing events - Horizons (Isitaria) _ Horizons had some really cool features. Huge community projects that took players to new areas. early in the game crafters had to tunnel out caves to give the community access a new adventuring area. To do so they needed adventurers to fight off the mobs in the tunnels and a chain of runners to supply them with crafting materials. Community built bridges that took players to unreachable islands. These bridges took weeks and months to build. The game also had town community projects with really no benefit and crafting stations out in the wild that needed to be rebuilt.

    3. Complexity - SWG - I did not play SWG but people raive about the complexity of crafting.

    4. Housing and plots - Horizons - Horizons had the best plot system and outside decorations of any MMO I have played. It lacked inside updating. What could be built on each plot was amazing. Huge storage solos for holding crafting resources, 13 or so crafting stations, guild halls, houses, outdoor buildings like gazebos, hedges, fountains, walkways, walls and so much more. Just amazing.

    5. Group harvesting - Vanguard - Great idea that one can extract more from a resource using a group harvesting the item. vanguard also had plans and actually had it in beta 2 for harvesting mini game sort of like their crafting system but it never really got developed before it was simplified to one click.

    6. Crafting Gear -Horizons and Vanguard - Having crafting gear is a great thing.

    7. Crafting stats - Vanguard- Separate stats just for crafting is another wonderful Vanguard innovation.

    8. Multiple character screens - Vanguard- Vanguard had 4 different character screens. One for adventuring, crafting, harvesting and diplomacy. So one did not need to change clothes every time they engaged in a different activity.​
  10. Mads Bodin

    Mads Bodin New Cupcake

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    I'm a fan of WoW, Engineering too. But i also love the idea of Cooking/alchemy to make food/posions.
  11. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

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    I mentioned in another thread about the first Guild Wars and "Salvaging".
    I was a huge fan of this, even though it annoyed me that my limited bag space was so full of materials and junk... but anyways I liked being able to salvage items from objects.
    I'd prefer a system that could hybrid this with what we are used to.

    I never played Vanguard, nor did I delve into Galaxies' crafting, but I know from friends that played that they couldn't get enough.
  12. Snapple

    Snapple New Cupcake

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    The crafting system I would like to see involves a mix of my favorites including SWG.

    Mining:
    I would like to move away from nodes (WOW mining/herbing) and go back to the surveying in SWG. Lets say you want copper ore. You then use your surveying tool which gives a % on how likely it would be if you mined at that spot to get the ore. Most places would be 0% but some may as high as 60 - 70%. Building on that say I mine something and it's a 50% chance of me getting a chunk of copper. When I get that chunk the chance now decreases for everyone who goes to that spot. Every spot can eventually hit 0% and after a week everything resets and the copper is randomly placed again somewhere else. This fixes node stealing but keeps the fun of hunting for minerals and also builds a supply and demand economy. Also I would like to have the ability to place a harvester as a settler but I'm not sure how that would work without crowding the world.

    Raw Materials:
    Each piece of raw material has randomly generated stats. For example lets say there are only 3 stats in the game Stam Agi and Str. Each stat gets assigned a random number out of a pool of 10. The first mineral is 6 stam 2 agi and 2 str and our second could be 1 stam 1 agi and 8 str. This makes mining more interesting and again adds a new level to the economy.

    Crafting:
    This is where the stats in the raw materials shine. Every piece of armor will be different. For demo purposes we only have 3 stats but in a real game we would probably have 8 or more. If we increased the stat number pool to say 100 we get even more combinations. I think this would be crafting more to life.

    Side note - Economy:
    In SWG the best crafters never used the auction house on my server. They had shops in their homes. This meant that you had to travel to the city they had a player house in and buy your armor. This was one of the most immersive thing I've ever felt in an MMO. It felt like an actual community / living world and people got to know you because of that.
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  13. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    For crafting mechanics I would have to say Vanguard or EQ2. Vanguard as the more challenging.

    I agree on the gear sets or wardrobes for Vanguard, I loved that too.
    However, in EQ2 I just macroed my three set of gear: adventuring, crafting, harvesting. Gear macros are really easy to set up.

    I just hate the tendency to limit access to all crafts. I am fine with requirements, like each craft gets more exspensive to train, or you have to max level one before you can start the next, or have to complete all achievements for one craft to access another - or a combo. Just as long as it is within reason possible to aquire all crafts.

    Either unlimited access to crafts, or a poor second choice: like WoW, where there is a set of secondary crafts (cooking, fishing, first aid, archeology for example - I really liked archeology) that everyone can have.
    I usually just make the number of alts needed to cover all crafts anyways, why can I not just do it on one, it is pretty much the same amount of work?

    I would have to say EQ2 for unlimited harvesting access, and the best harvesting skills imho. EQ2 has all non-combat mats gathering (herbs and roots) / mining (ore, precious stones and metals) / fishing (fish, doh) / foresting (lumber) / trapping (leather/meats) skills. Max skill available is highest adventuring OR crafting level x 5 skills.

    AND nodes are not on track!

    Group gathering on Vanguard, yes, I agree on that one too.

    Fishing could use the rare catch from WoW now and then, like the seaworthy mount turtle and other stuff, that is fun. Maybe added something rare to all the gathering skills.

    Fishing achievements and fishing tournaments too.

    For crafting quests, I would have to say EQ2 for the epic quests, group crafting dungeons and independant craft hubs each expansion (can't remember the Vanguard ones, but I do not feel it was a whole lot of grind -AND I never got around to do the group/guild building stuff, which I regret).

    For harvesting quests, I would have to say EQ2 for Gathering Obsession (a quest chain with a quest for each material tier) and some epic end reward. And Rift for the crafting rifts.

    Salvaging/transmuting/disenchant gear from Rift/EQ2/WoW for gathering mats with a reasonably usefull purpose.

    Augments from Rift to differentiate the outcome of a combine.

    The random stats on raw materials sounds interesting, I'd like to see that.

    And about the sidenote, EQ2 also has shops from homes, called broker bulletin boards.

    ok, my soapbox is breaking down, no more input from me today :)
  14. Myrddin

    Myrddin Cupcake

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    Yeah crafting in SWG was kind of nice, but there are others, too.

    I like crafting:
    • to have best loot available for crafting too, provided the materials are not too easy to obtain - aka SWG
    • to give chance of something cool to happen, like Neocron for example you were able to get slots on your items, the higher skill, the higher chance for slots ... you crafted like 20 weapons and got 14 with 1 slot, 3 with 2 slots, 2 with 3 slots and 1 with 5. The slots could be filled with upgrades, more ammo, more power, laser light, silencer, etc etc ...
    • to include salvaging stuff and make new items out of it (kind of like engineering in wow)
    • to adapt effects like spells in horizons, where you could add elemental damage or stuff ... could also be compared to what glyphs in wow were original supposed to be ... adding special effects (like a knockdown/knockback. Just the gathering was utterly annoying in Horizons ...
    • NOT like in lineage II. It is exactly what I don't want it to be ... to have 1000000000000000 parts that need to be assembled to create higher quality parts to create parts of weapons and you need like 20 of them ... just to get the same average sword the guy next to you was able to buy of the vendor.
    • to include the ability to increase stats of your items - that part of crafting in Lineage II was good - ... you could place like 10 enchants that added up on the weapon ... but each enchant had a chance to break the weapon ...
    • also liked the .... forgot the name ... implants stuff in anarchy online, where certain slots on your item could have only certain stats ... so it was fun to figure out the best way to get the most out of them
    • also reforging in wow is very nice, it doesn't make useless drops totally useless if you can change the stats a bit
    • in general I'd say ... I'd love a system that rewards you for putting effort in your items, but at the same time not too much ... more as a measurement to distinct yourself from the regular guy. A mix of SWG and Neocron would be my dream :D
  15. Ripper McGee

    Ripper McGee Founding Member

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    What kind of crafting would I like to see in Wildstar? Something "different" than what's currently common in so many MMOs. I'd really like to get away from node-farming.

    One of my favorite crafting systems currently is in the F2P game "Earth Eternal" (recently revived from a beta death last year and currently in beta again). Its crafting system is simple:
    • Find, loot, be awarded or trade for a weapon or gear plan
    • Loot or trade for materials
    • Buy a weapon or armor mold from an NPC in a major city
    • Visit a crafting NPC, place the plan in the crafting interface and voilà! Crafted, tradeable item
    I love that there's no node farming, no dependence on other professions, no failures and no investments in crafting X items for X amount of gold in order to level up your skills. In other words, it takes many of the old boring aspects of crafting out of the picture.
    What I don't like is there's a limited number of plans, which almost always drop from the same mobs. So, the system is simple and fun, but also limited. I would prefer, instead, that players be able to both find and create weapon and gear plans through the use of scrolls, reagents and loot. Like most games, Earth Eternal suffers from many of the same problems, one of which is mobs dropping a bunch of garbage loot. What if, however, every drop could possibly be used in some unknown crafting plan? This would open up an entire crafting metagame, as well as create an economy largely based on crafting. Furthermore, players would still need to actively hunt in order to obtain crafting materials as opposed to node-farming, especially the AFK macroing kind...
    Lastly, rather than have multiple crafting and gathering professions, there could simply "artisan" paths for crafting, with no actual skill levels. I might choose to craft bladed weapons, whereas another player might choose to craft leather armor. This would ensure that every player can't craft every item, thereby encouraging trade, but remove much of the unnecessary dependencies as seen in other games. I don't think crafting levels are required, because the crafting materials will inherently be level based, depending on the mobs that drop them. Yes, a guild could farm ingredients for level 1 crafting alts, but that would still require work in gathering materials or at least coin to purchase said materials. That's really all the investment that should be needed for a simple crafting system anyway
  16. Melanie Dawn McGreevey

    Melanie Dawn McGreevey New Cupcake

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    This is HUGE for me, as a "hardcore" crafter, i'd like (virtually) everything i make to be useful for me, my friends or other people that would actually NEED it.
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  17. thtgynmdfsh

    thtgynmdfsh New Cupcake

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    This, this, and this. I've always felt that crafted items should feel more personal than simple loot drops. I enjoy the idea of being able to create an item that I put time and effort in to, and to say it is mine. Whether or not it would be as good as loot you could get at a similar level from drops, would be more of a balance issue.

    I want to make my own awesome sword instead of getting sword x from boss y and dub it The McCleaver.
  18. Melanie Dawn McGreevey

    Melanie Dawn McGreevey New Cupcake

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    Another thing i'd like to see, is being able to break done virtually anything you find, or loot (weapons, armor, etc) and use those materials to craft with. Gathering is fine and all, but i really wanna see something more... who's to say i can't disassemble a "gun" and use the parts to tweak something else, or use to build and entirely new weapon? I just want something with multiple levels of detail.
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