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Do you guys think the Dominion Races have their own share of burdens besides being the bad guys?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by Roa, May 25, 2013.

  1. Roa

    Roa Cupcake

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    (I apologies if I made ton of grammatical mistakes.)

    It's a question that was bothering me when it was mentioned by some comments in gaming websites saying that the Dominion are just another "OHH were are the Dominion, WE are the bad guys!" and "We are evil" but there is one comment really got to me..

    Like the Horde Races they are misunderstood beasts like the Orcs, The Blood Elves, and etc.

    They have their own shortcomings, burdens, Tragedies and such, and, because of that they are force to use any means of power to protect themselves or despise other races because they are judged of what they appear and done without knowing the reason behind it, like the Blood Elves for example or the Orcs.

    I'm not much of a fan in the WoW MMO but I'm a bigger fan of the RTS version and its early lore.

    That said I really wanted to say The Dominion races have some sort of a sad back story to it unlike shown in the trailer of how the Dominion was established as they are really proud of their achievement.

    As I was reading the some of the Dominion races and its quite interesting.

    Like the Cassians, they are a race that are given two choices

    Meet their demands or faced extinction.

    In order for them not to be annihilated by the emissaries of the Mechari made by the Eldar, Cassian Sword Maiden Tresayn Toria accepted to their demads for the sake of her people. As they are given tremendous gifts by the Eldar they also have the heavy burden of holding their destiny.

    For the Draken...ehh, I think they were disappointed that their Clanlord was killed and lost by their invaders. Do you think some of them would instantly swear allegiance to their invaders Hah No! I Think they are a proud race as they and forcibly recruited as powerful conscripts for the Dominion. They may be loyal but I think they would never forget that they became lap dogs by the Empire, striped by their own culture and pride.


    and there's the Mechari, instruments of the Eldar, as they are task of helping Cassians destiny. Hoping to find what have happened to their creators and to finally reunite to them. They would try anything to discover what happened to their masters.

    All this subtle back stories really are interesting as they are more than just the main bad guy. IMO

    I know that the game is full of humor and has a wonderful art style which made me come back into drawing stuff again. THX CARBINE!

    But these would be a really good content for the Path system and I'm positively sure that the devs would give us more of the lore, and can deliver just that.

    What do you guys think about the Dominion?
    Are they more than just the bad guys?
  2. Korath

    Korath New Cupcake

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    What ? the Horde's races all are made of psycopaths and traitors who deserve to be wiped out to the last. The Dominion, at least, is frank : they are the "bad guys" for our moral values (which mean that they are the Good guys for their own) but they don't hide behind a so-called redemption when they slaughter everyone. That's why the Dominion is a million time more attractive than the Horde, IMHO.
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  3. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Why go on about the dominion being ''the bad guys'', also who said they are saying they are bad? They say they are just, righteous etc.

    Can we please stop it!!!!

    The Dominion isn't bad! They are JUST in their perception! They where chosen by the Eldan so what they think, was decided by 1 of the most advanced races. Why don't trust them? They are the most evolved beings in the galaxy.

    It not a question of being bad or good!! It's more a question of what morale values you have etc.
    No, they didn't JUST swear allegiance to their invaders. Both leaders agreed on a 1v1 duel. According to ancient Draken law, the winner would lead the Draken.

    So did they JUST swear allegiance, or was it the following of ancient traditions/rules + the lost of their leader.

    The Draken follow the law of the strongest! And The Cassian Emperor was the strongest! So he is in charge of the Draken.

    Also ''lapdogs''??? They want to kill, and under the command of the Luminai they can kill to their hearts content! So i have no fear they will ever want to change things again. They weren't ''forced'' since it was according their own rules. The Draken just follow their rules and the promise they made.

    But please can we stop saying things like ''they are the bad guys'' etc.
    You guys are looking to it, with the rule set we use here on Earth. But this is a fictional world, so their whole perception of good/evil is totally different.

    Don't get me started on a whole good/evil discussion cause that will take whole weeks! ;)

    PS: This is not personally to the OP, but just in general :D
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  4. Roa

    Roa Cupcake

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    haha my bad

    I'm kinda new to this lore

    because alot I've read in some other sites that they are just merely the bad guys

    Sorry if you are discontent of the post but I was merely trying to make a conversation..which in fact worked...ah little..
  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Aye, i have seen it on many site's before aswell. But......well i think it's like saying ''oh you're normal'' or saying ''oh you aren't normal'' cause what is ''normal''?
    And i think it's the same with saying good/evil in WS.

    Or the question of ''what is justice?''
    And 1 anime character made the perfect answer,
    And he also talk about ''Evil'' and ''Righteous''

    Go skip it towards 1:00
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  6. Korath

    Korath New Cupcake

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    Yeah, Doflamingo hit the bulleye : Justice, the Good, etc... at the very end, it only depend of who have the power to claim that his//her views are the correct ones and that enforcing them is Justice. Even if the Dominion itself recognize its brutal behaviour, I highly doubt that the common citizen think that he live under a dictarorship, and they proably belive that the exiles are a dangerous bunch of terrorists.

    Now, it will probably hard to sell it to peopel who don't care about the lore/uoung players.
  7. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    First off, I would like to say that what is "good and evil" is relative, but being a prick is not.

    I can see the cassian bit, they're maiden going with the Eldan being a form of heroic sacrifice, but the Draken, while they are proud, value strength and live on an Asskicking Equals Authority doctrine. I highly doubt they'd care that much about their clanleader if he was weak enough to lose. The Mechari are robots with one goal and directive: the expansion of the Dominion. They may care about what happened to their creators, but it's highly unlikely to be from some sort of sentiment.

    While impossible to understand from our pov, I'm sure Malvolio's talk of "responsibility" being so great is real to them and it weighs heavily, no matter how twisted it my seem from our perspective.

    Finally, while the Dominion is power-hungry and uses genocide and planet-murder to reach their expansionist goal, they at the very least value creativity and education, that's not something you see in your run-of-the-mill Empire in fiction. Of course, while they DO do that, it's quite possible it's also limited to the upper classes, hence the lower castes' rebellion.
  8. Roa

    Roa Cupcake

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    Wow that was kinda interesting to see that

    thanks for the responses
  9. Jynetik

    Jynetik "That" Cupcake

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    It's all a matter of perspective. I am sure that if you were just a regular Dominion citizen who looks into events about as much as your average citizen today in our world you would probably be pretty happy with the Dominion. You would assume that the Dominion is a powerful force for good, order, and stability in the galaxy that has a high religious quotient to it's action. Unlike religious motivation in our world the Elden's presence for the Dominion is tangible, they have their Lumini (Eldan / Human hybrid) leaders to guide them, and the Mechari, the servants of the Elden to support them. With all that in mind the Dominion's goals and arrogance are very understandable as they are very well reinforced.

    On the flip side if you are one of the exile humans who witness all kind of atrocities on the front line and decided to go rogue instead of stay part of a system that you personally saw as evil and destructive then it would be pretty easy to see the Dominion as the "bad guys". Same goes for the Aurin who had their planet destroyed for harboring criminals and traitors, and the Granok who refused the Dominion's wishes.

    This might be a bit topical and controversial but to use an analogy. The Dominion is to 21st century America as the Exiles are to Afghanistan, Bin Laden, and Americans who joined the insurgency or leaked information. The Dominion has a massive manifest destiny complex that compels them to force their will and their way of doing things across the galaxy for the sake of order and stability, not unlike the drive to spread democracy and install friendly leaders etc... In a similar fashion the Exile humans are traitors, and have attacked the Dominion in a way that could be considered by Dominion to be "terrorist" attacks, the Dominion then hunted these terrorists both to protect it's citizens and to demonstrate that such acts will not be tolerated. The Aurin, in a similar fashion to some rogue states in our world sheltered these exiles. The Dominion, again very much like what happened in the first decade of this century attacked the Aurin for doing so...The granok situation can be likened to topical events as well, basically where any country that didn't do what the larger more powerful country or faction wanted them to do and was punished / occupied for it, which resulted in an insurgency.

    What I am trying to illustrate here is that viewing either faction as good or evil requires a certain perspective. As we have a bird's eye view on the whole matter what we really see is just shades of grey and actions powered by understandable motivations. It's actually a complicated mess and I think that makes it even better, so kudos to Carbine.
  10. Zerdav

    Zerdav Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would like to add that both sides are very righteous, which makes them effectively morally the same.
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  11. Azhdaha

    Azhdaha Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not to worry, Roa! :)

    When you have a chance, make sure to check out this Uplink Analysis from October. In it, Carbine tackles the perceptions that people have of each faction. This is a great quote from the article:

    Of course, if you're a Dominion player, you might not see yourself as being evil at all, but... the factions in WildStar will not be painted in black and white.

    I think, for example, there's a reason why the Exiles don't want to talk about the 4th Exile race in the "Meet the Exile" video... ;)
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  12. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

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    To be fair, Carbine has said on interview that the Dominion aren't "bad guys" but the presentation has so far been rather that. Malvolio is a Hollywood villain archetype: an arrogant, posh, effeminate Englishman who crushes his wine glass when speaking of Dominion Galactic Diplomacy. Even the names are invoking that, I mean "Malvolio?" "The Dominion?" hehe I'm sure you can see what I mean.

    Now, I enjoy villains very much and being the villain in games that allow me to do so, which is a large part of the reason why I'm going Dominion. I appreciate if Carbine fully intends to make some more moral grey with the two factions, and would welcome such a thing, because while being the villain is fun, there needs to be some more depth for a setting to be really engaging. My favourite Star Trek races were the Romulans and the Cardassians, for example, and my favourite episodes would explore whether they really were the "villains" and how relatable their societies and motives could actually be (one of the reasons DS9 was so great).

    So yes, Carbine has said "they're not evil" but they haven't really shown it as much, which is why people (especially newcomers) keep calling them "the bad guys." :)
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  13. Guide

    Guide Well-Known Cupcake

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    We're not the bad guys. :D
  14. InnocentCivilian

    InnocentCivilian "That" Cupcake

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    What Joukehainen says is true: while Carbine has said that the Dominion aren't the 'badguys', but that they are more 'grey' (along with the Exiles), we haven't really seen that in what they've shown us. :p

    Based only on what we've seen so far, I actually do think that the Dominion are clearly being depicted as the villains.

    Yes, our perception of what is good/evil is based on a lot of our cultural upbringing and that can change over time. But Wildstar is a piece of media being made right now; built by people who have some of the values of this day and age.

    Just because a character believes that they're doing good doesn't mean that a modern audience will think that they're goodguys. Some of the best villains are the ones that honestly believe that their actions are necessary and just. The analogy I like to use best (because a lot of folks would be familiar with it) is Star Wars; the Empire doesn't see themselves as evil (they believe they are doing good and bringing order to the Galaxy), but I think that you would be hard-pressed to find people who would argue that they and the Rebels are equally 'grey' in terms of morality.

    Maybe two centuries from now, after a dictatorship empire has taken over all of earth, we'll look back on Star Wars films and go: "Yeah, having an all-powerful empire doesn't seem so bad - those Rebels are jerks!"; but right here and now, many of our cultures are brought up to believe in certain things being good/bad and that informs the design decisions with factions like the Dominion.
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  15. Jynetik

    Jynetik "That" Cupcake

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    I don't think there is really any motivation for Carbine to try and dissuade people that the Dominion are the "bad guys". Being arrogant, dastardly imperialists appeals to a lot of people, so does being the scrappy, combative underdogs. I don't really view the Dominion as "evil" or "the villains", I am pretty confident that as in WoW the "evil villains" are going to be what both factions will be ultimately fighting to overcome, while bickering with each other over territory or w/e. Both the Dominion and the Exiles are archetypes, very much like The Empire and the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars. Despite The Empire being a bunch of mostly bad guys there are still a lot of people who love them.
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  16. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Okay, American Revolution would be a better analogy imo :) still weak though. Or even any country's civil war. Off the top of my head, real situations come up really weak altogether here, and now I'll explain some.

    In your version, the Exiles would be American soldiers who refused to fire on civilians (as this is what happened in WS lore). American soldiers aren't ordered to fire on civilians/wipe them out from a war doctrine model. In any situation that this may have occurred, keep in mind that these soldiers didn't go and join the Taliban or turn their guns on other soldiers (except very minimal isolated situations, no major leadership). In WS, the Exile soldiers didn't go and join the forces that they were told to fire on, they just turned their weapons on the warships intent on the job and then left.

    I don't see the Dominion using the term "terrorist" as that invokes that the Dominion actually "fear" the Exiles, ya right :p Also from the lore, the Exiles only attacked Dominion military (warships). Granok are like the Spartans, where they kill the messenger (chaotic move no matter what) delivering the request of terms. Aurins totally got screwed for trying to be good folk, harboring the Exiles.

    In WS, the major Dominion and Exile's split was from turning weaponry upon its own citizens (and this is really where all arguments should originate concerning good/grey Dominion). Viewing both sides in grey puts the Exiles in a lighter one as opposed to the Dominion's quite dark shade :devilish:.

    In the end, I wish people just read all the lore for what it is, and not make comparisons to WoW or real world situations :). There is obviously one side that has higher moral values than the other here, without including the Redactoids from both side, which may alter this some.
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  17. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Absolutely. Who doesn't love the Imperial March? Like I wrote, the "villainous" elements are a lot of the appeal for going for a faction like the Dominion.

    The Horde vs Alliance thing in WoW is a bit different. There's a lot more lore there (for obvious reasons), the Night Elves in WC lore are the ones constantly f*cking everything up, Thrall was established early as an honourable leader with typical "heroic" qualities, etc.
  18. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Dominion Races have their own share of burdens besides being the bad guys?

    Okay, I was going to answer this question some before I read the other posts. Maintaining a universal government and all the uprisings/disagreements with that is a huge task.

    If you "go along" with the Dominion, you're most likely have access to food, medical, and all your basic needs met. You'll be able to travel in Dominion space free of fear of them. Now the costs this requires is something I won't guess on, but it's obviously there for each race becoming part of the Dominion.

    If you "play" with the Dominion, you'll be able to advance your position in life. Depending on how well you play this game and if you really believe in it, you'll be able to become something you'd never imagine before. At what costs? Well I won't go into that :)

    So the Dominion obviously offer advantages that can be helpful for many races/individuals, but you'll most likely be losing more and more freedom the more you get involved with them.

    Any government is going to deal with opposition, and not talking about the Exiles this time. There are going to be races/people out there out to destroy the Dominion/Exiles and won't be offering the freedom one can enjoy being with the Exiles or the benefits one enjoys from being with the Dominion. Sometimes, there are really nasty things that want to kill/enslave everyone, no exceptions :) So the Dominion has to deal with the absolute worst of the worst as well.

    Edit: Wanted to throw in that the Dominion probably make decisions like do we kill everyone on one planet in order to save everyone on the neighboring 10 planets? Yes, we will do that for the greater "good".
  19. Red_Death01

    Red_Death01 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Burdens? Ya- They have to deal with these annoying Exiles that won't follow their laws. Its a pain wouldn't you agree?
  20. MrWASDclick

    MrWASDclick Cupcake

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    The Dominion is a caste-layered society, whether it realizes it or not.

    On top, you would think you'd have the Lumini, and they are... To a degree. But let's face it, they're limited in number. So it falls to the "aristocratic" caste of leaders, like Malvolio, to execute the directives of the Lumini.

    The Lumini say "We are to unite the races of the galaxy."

    The Aristocrats say "Sure... I do believe hostile takeover will be the most efficient course of action should they not respect our diplomacy and station. Butler! I will be requiring my ***-kicking shoes, polish them."

    The military caste follows orders. Period. It's what they do, because they trust in their leaders implicitly. As well they should.

    Civilian castes don't get out much. You don't often go out on a "vacation" to some random planet when you could go to Beachadonia, so they see the war and strife through anything other than the tinted lens of the media.


    What I find interesting is that the Dominion is doing well. Very well. Cocksure and ready to faceroll. But they aren't realizing that the Exiles aren't just a speedbump in the way, but rather the seeds of dissent and disharmony. What if the Aurin hadn't been attacked for having aided the Exiles? What if they had instead said something like "Well, it is unfortunate you aided the rebels. But sympathy and helping those in need can be an admirable trait. I'm sure those rebels have tilted your perceptions of us unfavorably, but I'm sure if we talk... You'll find we're not so bad." Then the Aurin may very well not have joined the Exiles. After all, things would have stayed diplomatic, and the Aurin are receptive to living in harmony with all things, which could very well include a galactic empire.

    But instead, a ticked-off general said many mean things before hitting that big red flashy button that said "Fire Everything!" So they lost a shot at diplomatically adding a new group to their empire, and did something counter-productive to their goals. And it's becoming more pronounced that the Dominon is running head first into a situation that could very well divide their whole empire.

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