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Elder Game Itemization Goals

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Gortok, May 23, 2013.

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  1. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    Ooo what neat play on it!
  2. Dualist

    Dualist Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really like the sound of this! To solve the whole problem of pets and telegraphing, they should just put pets in a purely supportive role. I can envision a baby dragon which envelops my sword in a swathe of flame causing bonus damage on my next few attacks, or something along those lines.

    PS: I kind of hope they make pets a little bigger than we're used to, since there's no pet class I don't think I'd be satisfied with something of minipet size.
  3. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah - I'd make pets non-combat, so they can't be killed - it's just like another item slot (because otherwise it REALLY screws you over when you get hit by a telegraph). Plus, then you don't have to balance anything differently (it makes the pets even more desirable).

    I feel they'd need to also have a stat on solo gear to be "pet bonus" or something - to make your pets give extra bonuses. Since otherwise you can still wear your raid gear.
  4. Mortelugo

    Mortelugo New Cupcake

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    Hmm, a 'solo companion' type thing would be pretty cool, if we're differentiating between solo, groups (5-man and less) and raids (6 or more) then the companions might never be summonable in a raid, only in an open-world group, and in both instanced and open world solo. Would add a nice twist to it in a support capacity.
  5. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I'm not really a fan of having separate types of gear for different content/playstyles. Only if it is absolutely necessary to make a part of the game balanced (like PvP being too bursty without PvP stats) am I okay with it. What I see this gear divergence doing is creating a barrier or wall for those players who enjoy multiple facets of the game. Some people will only focus on arenas or raiding, but a lot of us have multiple hobbies inside of MMOs. Extra gear sets will only hold these players back from enjoying other parts of the game. I can tolerate it between PvE and PvP gear since both are highly competitive in nature and need to be balanced so that player performance trumps gear performance. However, while you can make solo content challenging, it is not on par with raiding or ranked PvP games. Grinding out an additional set of gear for soloing content would be a real shame since it already will take enough time to gather up the gear to raid and presumably to PvP as well since I understand that PvP stats are on the way. It will turn what is meant to be an entertaining, challenging game into a tedious slog for gear just to begin being an effective player in other areas of the game I'll want to take part in. That is my take, anyway.
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  6. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    So i guess i will share my thoughts on this, even though it is likely something you have already thought about.

    My initial thoughts are that pve will be more “pure” in regards of a dps spec will go mostly dps, a tank will go mostly tank without too much thought for other elements than their main role.

    Pvp Gear will be fixed with the pvp offensive/defensive stats.


    Solo gear should imo. be more balanced raiding gear, So a dps would get more tankiness and more sustain, like life steal etc. all this would ofcourse be at the cost of raw damage (both from needing to change some spells in your combat list but also from items.

    For people keeping their tankish / healish spells you would for the tnaks have to give them some more damage, and for healers some sustain and some more damage again at the cost of their primary role stats.
    So basically all roles will be more balanced across damage / sustain than would be the case in a raiding environment.

    For specific items they could help amplify spells that are mostly used in solo play so the items could still feel great and a great boost of power without breaking raiding or pvp.
    Even if the gear is overall weaker than their primary role there’s no reason to not make the gear feel like great upgrades and something you definitely want to use.
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  7. Bomoo

    Bomoo Cupcake

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    Interesting design problem. Maybe a special gear enhancement that only appears on solo gear that grants bonuses when the player is not grouped by possibly checking proximity of other players or party status? Though the latter could be problematic as some like to party up for easier chatting with their friends while they're soloing. And the former could be equally problematic if someone were to decide that trolling solo players by standing near them and removing their weapon buff is a fun time to be had.

    Rough example: a sword that has say 60% of the stat budget of an equivalent raid/pvp item, but with a solo enhancement that doubles its effectiveness when the player fulfills the solo condition. What that condition could be mechanically is another, perhaps more difficult, design problem.
  8. Dualist

    Dualist Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's an interesting idea, pets as a gear slot. It's just another form of gear which happens to bounce around behind us! I just kind fear this route because the game might end up looking like pokemon in space.
  9. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Just because no1 has answered you yet, let's give you the info that is known already:
    So i do hope 200 complete armor sets are enough for you :p As for the looks, i don't know how they look, but you always have the option to Dye your gear!!! So that means you have an even bigger chance to wear something unique.

    Also this has been confirmed in an interview :up:
  10. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    About the whole Solo progression thing: I really like the idea based on the 'upgradable companion' thing. I rather not have a companion like in SWTOR, but the idea of an upgradable item or progression system that wasn't active in raiding/PvP but not overly confusing sounds great to me. I like the mini-pet idea that'd stick next to you and buff you perhaps (Makes me think of the Scientist Scanbot.) Perhaps it's a special implant or enhancement that is 'suppressed' by the powers-that-be in raids/PvP minigames. So yeah, I definitely subscribe to the solo item progression being a separate thing rather than dealing with even more stats that only apply to xyz.
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  11. Dualist

    Dualist Cupcake-About-Town

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    200 complete armor sets? Assuming each set looks unique, and each set is comprised of 6 parts (head/shoulders/chest/pants/gloves/boots) <- might be more, i'm not sure, the possible number of combinations seems crazy.
  12. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    The simplest solution I can think of is assigning part of the stat budget on raid gear toward a specific stat which is necessary for raiding yet has no benefit in solo content. The budget for other stats on raiding gear could then be lower than equivalent quality soloing gear.

    ie: Enemies in raid instances have exceedingly high resistance to all forms of damage. Raid gear has a stat called 'Penetration' which negates this resistance. 'Penetration' is found on all raid items and is always locked so cannot be removed. 'Penetration' takes up X% of the stat budget on raid items, to a degree that the remaining Moxie/Brutality etc is lower than an equivalent soloing item.
  13. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would be totally against this idea. First it's just very boring to say there is raid resistance or PvP resistance on gear. Secondly, this makes raid gear inferior to regular gear you get outside of a raid which should never be the case. The gear should be different for the task, not just boosted based on the location.
  14. RedBarroness

    RedBarroness New Cupcake

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    For me as healer, the solo gear I chose usually allows me to stay alive as a solo player. So I rely on the life steal and defense stuff where as I were to raid I would want gear that has more of an effect on my healing abilities and support and less on my abilities to lay down DPS.
    My 2 cents.
  15. Mottatoni

    Mottatoni New Cupcake

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    I loved all of these systems!Guys u r amazing,cant wait for this game
  16. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So... I was thinking of another complex problem. In a PVP server you not only have the mobs you're fighting, but also other players that come around. So, when players come to the open world from their Warplots and Arenas, they have an impossible advantage to a solo player on the same realm. For PVP realms you could balance solo gear around this, in that it gives a higher stat amount and a PVP stat. This means you can kill mobs in the open world better than the equivalent levelled PVP player, but you would still stand a chance against them in a fight, even if it's to a slight disadvantage. This would make the gear useless to Raiders, but then Raider's sheer stats could balance out somewhat in open world PVP.

    Now, I realize this isn't a viable solution for PVE server players, though PVE players could have something like monster damage mitigation, as well as an overall stat boost over the PVP players. This means

    Wouldn't that kinda detract from the Scientist, with his scan-bot's ability to scan/buff the player, as well as "collect 'em all" mentality?
  17. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Alright, first of all, thank you for sharing this info with us and allowing us to discuss it, Gortok!

    Now to dig into what you wrote :D
    Firstly, I'm thinking that the way to differentiate solo versus raid or pvp gear progression should be stats and resistances.
    - Solo/5-man gear has your regular character stats, procs etc
    - PvP gear - at higher tiers - has mitigation against player damage and things that benefit a PvP themed spec more. You will be able to buy entry-level PvP gear at vendors, and hopefully due to tiered matchmaking even at end game, compete with people at your gear and skill level.
    - Raid gear possesses more resistances and perhaps special procs. These resistances are against damage types that simply don't appear in solo/small group play, and are more and more needed as you progress in raid tiers. They are rating based, so 100 points give you say, 2% of resistance, and thus equivalent to level. This allows you to have higher required resist ratings to meet the same amount of % resistance in higher content levels as you expand the content.

    So what does that mean?
    - Solo gear is bad for anything but entry raids, since it lacks the resistance to survive later-tier boss effects. This means you have to buy/earn raid gear to do anything but the entry level stuff, but you CAN buy your way into gear that will allow you to survive later encounters. Except youll still have the obvious deficit of practice in the raid tier.
    - PvP gear will have specific stuff that allows you to counter player damage and specific stats and procs for popular pvp builds, without which you will have a damage deficit
    - Raid gear, while overall VERY strong, lacks the PvP stats, though it might be pretty awesome for soloing too, at least on par with top-end PvE gear perhaps. But well tweaked solo gear is an even match if not still better, since it brings the right tools to the table.

    What are the implications of having different gear sets? Different gear sets, of course (duh. ok, that one was silly of me, but hear me out). This means someone who happens to do all 3 things (personally I dislike pvp, but i used to solo and raid in WoW) will need 3 gear sets. This means clutter.
    The possible solution? As you raise up in levels, let us unlock/buy/etc more gear loadouts much like the LAS loadouts. Meaning if I want to have a PvP set, I can have that, and don't have to lug around 10 or so items in my inventory and hand-switch them every time I want to go solo or pvp. Sure, there are addons in popular games to auto-swap gear, but in my opinion, it feels more natural to have another loadout you can edit freely.
    This does mean more "inventory spaces" in a way, since instead of 10 items, your character can "wear" 20-30 instead. But I personally don't view that as too big of an issue (in terms of people abusing the system as extra mule space), since equipped items should bind, and it still is cumbersome to abuse the item slots over bag space.

    Sorry for the wall o' text so far, but I sadly have more to say xD

    Crafting:
    One question for you, Gortok. You said raiding will feed into raid crafting etc. - Does that mean the discerning crafter HAS to raid, or could his/her guild funnel raid dropped recipes to them instead, and use BoP raid materials to come to them and ask for commission crafts? Personally I much prefer my idea, where crafters CAN stand apart from a game type, but still supply it and cater to it. This would of course still gate crafters from making raid items unless they partook in the raiding to roll on the needed BoP raid-only mats. This would imho fit more with their role as traders and makers.

    As for specializing, I like that. I like being required to spend a LOT of time on refining a recipe to make it better, and I love how crafters will likely be able to provide the best solutions for some but not all item slots at all tiers. I just enjoy being able to refine my work to have it be the best choice for some people and slowly craft small numbers of that coveted item. Way to go making crafters special and useful, going away from the WoW style of "either be a tailor/etc and make your raid piece at cap, then forget you ever learned the craft, or be an alchemist and make a killing off of raid pots".

    Ok, I think I'm done for now ^^
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  18. Galosha

    Galosha Cupcake

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    I don't like pet proposal. As group/raid geared player you would have advantage over solo geared player in solo game, because you get and better gear and pet. And this pet system very similar to the systems form some asian MMO i dont want it in WS.
  19. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I don't if this has been answered since I can't seem to find it I will ask anyway.

    is there any equivalency between PVP and PVE gear?

    I think the majority of my time will be in PVP but I am a PVE raid/dungeon dabbler (especially with the stuff WS has shown thus far of the dungeons) So does that mean I have to grind for PVE gear?

    I would like a system that would allow the gear that I have, to be viable in more than just one aspect of the game.

    multiple gear grinds are just so mind numbingly boring :(

    (even though I hope "gear grind" is a term that will not be a applied to pvp, more like gear reward or something)
  20. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok, that sounds actually great for solo PvE - and maybe small group, as in, have the pets contribute to the group stats, but also to the member count? - but yeah. That is an amazing idea for bragging rights/showing off, yes.
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