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Elder Game Itemization Goals

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Gortok, May 23, 2013.

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  1. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Odd ball thought here, but with raiding PVP and extended solo content all getting it's own gear. Won't that lead to stuffed inventory as you have to juggle 3 sets of armor or more.
  2. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Now this is as far as I got so I'm not sure if this has been addressed or not.

    I like the concept you have here, I'll just be a little more generalized to try and answer Gor's question. PvP and PvE high end gear generally has 3 stats to max out. So, take Brutality. Let's say the highest tier of PvE and PvP has Brutality at +15 why not have the highest Solo be +7. Also have the solo gear have all the stats be +7 or a generalized number that gives some power, some survivability, some healing etc..

    When I look at this it would never be as good as specialized PvE or PvP high end gear. But, it should be good enough for solo small group and solo and a good starting point for PvP or Raid. I'm sure the number crunchers will tell me where I am wrong but it sounds good at the moment. ;)
  3. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    If Carbine implemented an armory/wardrobe feature that acts as an armor set holder/storage, managing armor sets may not be such a big deal. But I do have a bit of a concern regarding the need to work on several gear-sets in order to be viable and competitive in multiple facets of the game. I don't think there should be special solo gear, only at most PvE, PvP, and spec gear.
  4. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    on a raid group you woudnt need that, healers would heal you up, and it would be faster then exchanging gear.

    also if raid gear has more max hp, it means that you cant trade gear and heal to 100% anyway, since your MAX HP would increese leaving you not full
  5. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well I can see why you would include solo only gear. Solo players don't just stop playing at the level cap so you have to give them something worthwhile.
    CRB_Gortok and Psistorm like this.
  6. Nizr

    Nizr New Cupcake

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    Agree with you here! Raid gear should be the best possible PVE gear!
    Can't see the point with solo-PVE gear, that's just... Wierd
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Cupcake-About-Town

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    This will be crude so look more at the core of the idea for this as I'm not exactly an expert on balancing >.<

    I was thinking what if we focus on different types of defence for the different "environments"?

    My idea is basically: Wildstar has shields, and shields come with the benefit of quick regeneration, which is great for solo'ers, as they want little downtime and don't use as many consumables as raiders. Health is still a bit more reliable, and raiders would feel "safer" with a big health pool than a shield.

    So:
    • Solo gear is shield-focused, and end game "solo mobs" do extra damage to health
    • Raiding gear is health focused, and mobs in raid do extra damage to shields
    • PvP gear has PvP stats like lowering taken player damage, and players get skills that can do extra damage to health, and skills that do extra damage to shields, making the PvP gear the best choice for this environment.
    The tier 0.5 solo gear is too weak in the most dangerous solo environments
    The tier 0.5 raiding gear is only good enough to, when combined with some good trinkets etc, complete the first raid
    PvP is tiered so you compete with people of somewhat similar gear level, making the tier 0.5 PvP gear one such "bracket".

    Now, a system like that would make it very difficult to try out the other play styles, not to mention people with the ambition to play both solo and raid content, or all three, would have ridiculously filled bags/bank slots. My (again rather crude) ideas for tackling this issue:
    • "Tier 0.5 "gating" made approachable: Raiding is "gated" by an epic quest line, readying you for the "most dangerous places on Nexus". The quest line is achievable in a small group (or soloable?) and rewards a full set of raid gear (not including certain slots like trinkets etc.) Another "epic" quest line rewards a full set of solo gear, and a third quest line, more focused on achieving certain things in PvP rewards a full set of PvP gear. Neither of these three sets are as good as tier 1.
    • Multi-set wardrobe, and automatic gear swapping: Your character has, for the basic gear slots (not counting trinkets etc), different armour sets on the paper doll. There's a raid set, a solo set and a PvP set. The raid set doesn't unlock before cap. A toggle allows you to choose to "copy" another set into one another if you don't have pieces for it. If you enter a raid, your character automatically swaps to the raid set, in the open world your character swaps to the solo set and in PvP your character swaps to your PvP gear.
    • You still need to make decisions when it comes to gear like trinkets and maybe even batteries, but these give bonuses that are more class- or playstyle based than based around raiding vs solo vs pvp.
    Now, I'm at a loss when it comes to: Which gear set type is best and active for dungeon content? This is something I'm wondering regardless of how solo gear is made...
    CRB_Gortok and Veckna like this.
  8. Nezk

    Nezk Cupcake

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    • Players have to make interesting choices about dropped items.
      • What stats come on these vary, although the total value is generally about the same.
      • Depending on the variation, some of these items are better for one spec or another.
    Amazing yes yes yes, This allows people to obsess about the most insane degree's of min maxing and is what "treasure" should actually feel like


    • Players are rewarded for doing the things that they like to do most.
      • Raiding feeds back into raiding items and raid crafting.
      • PvP feeds back into PvP items and PvP crafting.
      • Solo story feeds back into solo play items and solo play crafting
        • For the purposes of this I am referring to open world solo or small group play.
    I don't know how concrete you mean by this, I hope for the most part the items don't cross paths but a PvE weapon is still gonna wreck train in PvP

    As for Solo gear, I think you should just define this as fairly comparable raid or PvP gear by either a long arduous series of solo quests and 5 man dungeons(tier 0.5 quests in WoW on an even bigger scale), or farming Battlegrounds for Honour, the only 2 "fair" ways to award casuals gear that can compete. If a guy has spent months doing hard mode 5 man dungeons and BG for months he should be ready for Arena and Raiding imo.

    This allows casual guilds to tackle content at their pace, without overdone nerfs which really cheapened the TBC content.

    Give the players the tools to raid and they will, 40 people, make them make this as social a game as WoW was.




    Great post by the way, You are doing an amazing job with the community communication. Bravo and good luck
  9. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    The point is that there are Eldergame Solo and Small Group (5man) Dungeons, and the Devs have said that these are going to be more difficult than leveling content, and the way I read this,

    the SSG content is going to be progressive; otherwise there would be no need for progressive SSG gear.

    As for being… weird; every fricken person who has read a MMO Forum since 2005 should know that Raiders believe that their the center of the verse; that there gear should be the best, and the prettiest, and should be fully functional in PvP, and every other aspect of the game, and none of the other gear should be even close to being functional in their Raids, and that those of us who are not Raiders are simple minded Sheeple; unable to comprehend the ways of raid gear, easily awed by the Raider in their pretty gear.

    Of course it is not hard to understand where this viewpoint came from; being up to W*, they have not only been the center, but pretty much the whole of the post-cap MMO Verse.

    Now that I’ve got that off my chest;
    the point of this thread is right there in the portion of CRB_Gortok’s post I quoted.
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  10. cirk

    cirk Cupcake

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    Wow I am sorry to hear that people can get so bitter about these things. I would love to see pve gear being viable in pvp and vice versa. Not because I believe raiding players stand above everyone else but all the suggested alternative stats and mechanics lead to a fragmented community. Players will focus their attention on a specific type of gameplay because dappling in other areas will require them to spend extra time gearing up to being able to compete.

    It isn't about who has the best and the prettiest gear. The problem lies with accessibility. Every player can access solo content but not every player has access to a dedicated raid group. If there was a special "hat of awesome" available through solo content, that compares to item found in raids, every raider would get it too. And if everyone has it anyway what's the point. It does not matter how powerful or good looking an item is. If everyone is special no one is.

    Has anyone an idea or an example how eldergame solo content could look like? I have a bit of a hard time imagining something that isn't boring or completely broken. Maybe because it hasn't been done before on this scale. I would be grateful for some inspiration. Discussing mechanics and rewards feels a bit odd if we don't even know what we are talking about exactly.
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  11. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think a good way of doing this is with a sort of "set bonus" thing (set being solo/raid/pvp gear sets) without any major changes in stats between raid/pvp/solo gear. But for it to work those bonuses really need to make a difference for the specific area the items are used in.

    It can be like someone mentioned before gaining +50 to raid boss dmg when wearing raid gear , or it can be something like "+100 grit, this effect only triggers in a dungeon instance". This would also allow the gear to be useful when doing something else (e.g. a raider doing pvp) but it won't be bis. This way that player would still be able to make a difference and have fun in other aspects of the game without actively needing to get a whole different gear set, but he will still not do as good as someone that has been gathering the other type of gear.

    The "bonus" also doesn't have to require a full set of solo/pvp/raid gear, just a set number (majority). So if you're taking time to play a lot in different areas those items would still be benificial.

    I apologize if I stole someones suggestion, can't remember the exact content of the whole thread. :p
  12. Sawpaw

    Sawpaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wouldnt this just mean people would wear their raid gear to solo and their solo gear to raid? which would mean that to progress in raids you would have to get your gear from soloing, I must be misunderstanding something here because that would be an extremely backwards idea.
  13. hopscotch

    hopscotch Cupcake

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    I believe the solo content will be story driven solo instances, Most of the story of nexus will be gained from this solo content so everyone can experience it and are not forced to do the raids.

    This is my understanding of it, I could be completely wrong.
  14. cirk

    cirk Cupcake

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    The problem I see here is re-playability. If the main goal of these instances is the story there is no reason to complete them several times. So we need an insane amount of solo content to prevent people to finish it all in a couple of days. If they want to slow down the progression they need some kind of gating system like timed lockouts or grinds. Or will there be mini-bosses that have such a steep learning curve, that it takes the player a week to learn the fight and move on? How would you balance such an encounter against every class and different player-skill. And if they are to difficult you have the same problem you have with raids that you lock player out. So will they make the challenge easier every week so that eventually everyone can access it? But then the content becomes way to easy for people who start playing post launch. Will the difficulty be fixed and changed individually after the player has been stuck for week?
    I really like the idea of challenging solo content, but I can't get my head around how it could work.
  15. Kyrios

    Kyrios Cupcake

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    Maybe its just me, But I usually raid for hours and hours, and Then I am waiting for a raid to form, so I que up for PvP. I dont think, just because I raid heavily I should be gimped in PvP. Do I know the answer or fix to this problem ? No... But I just hate being top heals or main tank in a raid, then going to PvP and I get smashed by somebody that has been PvPing for a weak and has no skill...
  16. Kraun

    Kraun New Cupcake

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    Exactly why diffenrent playstyle-gear (PVP/PVE) shouldn't even exist, specially in a game where PVP is only a fraction of the games content.
  17. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is incorrect; every player has access to raid content, and every player has 8760hrs per year that they have to prioritize. I choose to not spend those hours on 20man Raid content, because I consider them to be to anal for me, I have authority issues, and I hate to lose (Which would require me to put up with the first two, to be in a competitive raid guild.); not because I’m not good enough to get into a dedicated raid group.
    I also do not join dedicated raid groups because I’m incapable of playing in groups. I have been playing team sports since I can remember. My employment has always been group orientated, which includes 10 years in one of the largest groups in the world; the US Military. I have no problems being a team player when I choose to be team player.
    One of the things we have been told is that the primary story line of Nexus is going to be in the Eldergame Solo Dungeons. Is it really that difficult to imagine more difficult solo content, inside a solo instance? Content that is not designed for you to level through, but to overcome, just as Raid content is. Content that is no more broken than Raids, or no more boring to someone who enjoys Solo content, than Raids are to someone who enjoys Raid content.
    I agree with you it is odd to talk about the specifics of mechanics and rewards of content that I have not gotten my hands onto.
  18. Myrrdhinn

    Myrrdhinn Well-Known Cupcake

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    I really like the mini pet idea which was presented in a few pages back. :) That way the pets would be useful enough for everybody. :) (But I love them anyways :$)

    The another really cool thing is Yakzan's twist on it. Make implants or chips which can't be used in a raid or pvp situation. You don't have to remove them, they just stop functioning in those environments.

    I'd love to see those implemented somehow, but I have some own thoughts too.

    My idea is about unique skills. You can already slot skills or abilities to gears. Make unique skills which cannot be used in a raid, dungeon, or any kind of structured pvp situation.
    Make a couple of those implants and make it really, really hard to get. That way there would be a progression.. a goal to achieve.
  19. Pixie

    Pixie Cupcake-About-Town

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    No, raid gear would have extra health bonuses, and inside raids, the mobs would do extra damage to shields, making the shield less useful in a raid than in solo content, meaning solo players would be at a disadvantage inside raids

    Solo gear would give benefits to shields, and since solo mobs would do extra damage to health, raiding gear with health bonuses would be less useful in solo content, meaning people with raid gear would still get a benefit in the solo parts of the game from obtaining solo gear, while leaving the raid gear still more useful in raids.

    I think I may have burst a circuit there, I'm not sure that makes more sense than the original post, but basically:

    I'm raiding. For me, health = good, shield = less useful
    I'm soloing. For me, shields = good, health = less useful
    I'm a PvP'er. Other players can decimate my health and my shields with skills, so for me, minimizing player damage taken is more useful than either health or shield bonuses.
  20. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I do like this idea. I think it could work really well either alone or coupled with my pet idea.
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