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End Game gear

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Banelight, Apr 25, 2013.

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How do you want to get your end game gear?

  1. Grind instance for drop

    33.0%
  2. Buy gear with currency gained buy doing instances

    1.0%
  3. Both of the above....if unluck on drops want to eventualy be able to buy gear

    65.0%
  4. Dont really care...either way

    1.0%
  1. Mailroomclerk

    Mailroomclerk Cupcake

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    This is a backwards mentality, you should not get "Raid" gear (or equivalent to Raid gear hence we call it Raid gear) for non Raiding.
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  2. Cupcake

    Cupcake Cupcake

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    I'm all for the working for your end game gear waiting for that piece to finally drop or having to start an epic chain that leads you through dungeons and ends in raids. Token purchasable gear should be available as a stopgap but on a lower tier. After all how epic/legendary can your gear be if you are guaranteed to get it after X number of raids.
    Lumzk, Bainik, MeakGG and 1 other person like this.
  3. Mailroomclerk

    Mailroomclerk Cupcake

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    Simplicity at it's finest. As much as everyone doesn't want to admit they are a "loot whore" the MMO scene is entirely focused on feeling accomplishment through loot and value towards it.
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  4. Aresk

    Aresk New Cupcake

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    I think this is an important note: why does gear feel special to people? For some, it's the uniqueness: I have it and you don't. For others, it's the appearance: my character looks awesome. For others, it's the stats: I can now perform better than before. Others, it's simply about setting a benchmark: I want to have all epics, regardless of who else has them, what the stats are, or how it looks. Personally, I'm a benchmark players: I like to set goals for myself and achieve them, and when that goal is to get a particular piece of gear, I don't care who else has it or what the stats are as long as I enjoy working toward that piece of gear.

    I think gear that requires task completion tends to feel the most rewarding, as the gear is both the goal and the reward, and effort was made toward that specific gear (I know someone still farming Thunderfury bindings weekly for seven years and still hasn't seen them). I really wish this had been a poll option, as this is really how I prefer gear. If I were designing an MMO solely for a population of people identical to me, I would have PvP and raids only offer a much more efficient means of gaining the components to build items, and I'd have PvP and raid exclusive items be cosmetic: trophies of achievement rather than items of power. I realize that my view does not make up the majority.

    I think gear that was received in some sort of random way feels rewarding because it's closely linked to another goal (killing a raid boss, accomplishing something with friends, etc.), and animals (including humans) psychologically respond better to randomized reward; it helps remove a feeling of grind, which I think is particularly of merit in PvP under most previous loot systems (that can become very grindy, though this was somewhat alleviated by strategies and execution differing from one PvP matchup to another).

    Unfortunately, randomization only feels good to a point, and then the expected value of reward versus effort stops becoming appealing, at which point the more reliable token/currency systems start to feel good. As we all have different thresholds for when this burnout happens, our valuing of this last system will likely be drastically different. If token gear is unique from drop gear, slightly weaker (to the point the person can still contribute to group play but still want to try for drops), and only available for some of the harder-to-fill item slots, then I think the value of drops doesn't diminish, but people still have a means of alleviating burnout. If I were to go with this system, I'd ensure the token/currency was only received from that same type of content (PvP tokens for warplots, for instance), and I'd place a number of non-equipped items available for that currency too (housing, costuming, dyes, mounts, consumables otherwise available via the auction house). Nothing that anyone needs to purchase but stuff that people could enjoy or find useful.

    In terms of what gameplay should reward what gear: I think as long as the gear is relevant to that gameplay, all elder games should reward gear. I think arbitrary labels of "purple gear" or "raid gear" are important only for those players who seek exclusion, so they do have some value. If it's not too much of a management nightmare, I think "red gear" for elder game PvP, "purple gear" for elder game raiding, "gold gear" for elder game crafting, and "orange gear" for elder game for elder game solo would both conveniently express where the gear was earned (and thus the accomplishments of the players) while preserving the exclusivity that so many people seem to want. However, I think that in terms of item level, restricting item level X gear to raids is simply spurning a lot of the player base: with CBC, there are other ways of making gear unique (a chip only found in raids, for instance) that should retain gear diversity beyond anything an ilvl would achieve.
  5. Rivele

    Rivele Cupcake

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    going to say it, it just sounds like other games and with it the feeling of elitism.

    this just proves to separate people playing and causes problems.

    I am for raiding and everything but if you look at games like wow people got left out and mainly only about 10-15 percent of the population really ever saw end game.

    they had to change their tactics mainly bc of the dropoff of people for those reason. but then a lot of elitist complained bc it wasn't PURE anymore.

    if they can devise a way of doing this without the umpteen amounts of hours and exclusion then ok.
  6. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually the numbers show that the "drop off" you're talking about didn't happen until later WotLK when you could purchase things with tokens easily, raids became easy, and 10 mans became viable.

    Also that 10-15 percent isn't correct.

    What you call "elitism" might be what others call "motivation". If you don't have any motivation to be the best, or have the best gear, you won't be the best or have the best gear. I work very hard in life, and one day hope to own a few houses, drive nice cars, and bang super models. Should you be allowed to do the same working at a gas station? There is nothing wrong with working at a gas station, but you can't expect to have the same things in life as somebody who owns a successful business, or runs a multi million dollar company, can you?
    Mailroomclerk and Outlaw like this.
  7. Rivele

    Rivele Cupcake

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    now in wow there is a bigger percent but before the aility to have a raid finder there was lower percentages.

    don't compare rl with in game and there is a difference with what i am saying. elitism in the case i am talking about =/= motivation. you putting way way to much into what i said. you can have people that are motivated and successful with out the elitism.

    percentages in game change they changed mainly with the change of blizzrd changing tactics to try and keep a huge player base.

    the reason that there seemed a bigger drop off during wotlk is mainly bc there was a bigger user base, and you have to take in account there there usually is huge drop off of people during a time before an expansion.

    there is alot more factors you have to look at in alot of these cases and trying to make them equivalent to rl, no.
  8. Doomgrin

    Doomgrin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Gear by drop. Also award tokens to buy similar gear. Drops should be the snazzy skins and BIS. Token gear a little plainer and maybe 95-99% the stats.

    I suggest the tokens to help battle the RNG-gods. But longevity should not be the sole source of the best items.
  9. Mailroomclerk

    Mailroomclerk Cupcake

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    Raiding is at an all time low. LFR is not raiding. It's not supported by the raiding community (raiders) and those who use LFR even consider themselves "non-raiders".
  10. Mailroomclerk

    Mailroomclerk Cupcake

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    95-99% is really high, haha. It doesn't seem like a big enough difference. I think since the token method is guaranteed, the item quality should be significantly lower. The variety is great and the quality of items should reflect the method of achieving them.
  11. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I'm in favor of random drops, it may have been addressed in previous pages, but why can't there be a small adjustment to the drop% of an item that the players feel "never drops"
    For example the TF bindings or the dagger from Gruuls lair. If it's something that is noted across the entire playerbase, why can't they adjust those drops as opposed to creating an entire vendor/money system.

    I'm also against the notion that a player has to have everything in the game. Being OCD is a personal issue and not a game mechanic issue. I would have liked to have the ZG tiger mount, I didn't want to go farm ZG for it, my choice, but I never begged the devs to put it on a vendor or put it in a reward bag from a dungeon. I don't have it, people who farmed ZG do have it, I still lived.
  12. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    I voted for dungeon drops, though I think a combination is fine as long as long as it's balanced appropriately. I think the vast majority of gear should be random drops - part of the fun of gearing up is the rush you get from that random element. Even when you have horrible luck and have to run a dungeon an absurd number of times to get a drop, it feels that much sweeter when you actually get it.

    For me, token systems tend to feel really unsatisfying and grindy. It becomes work, and you know exactly how many times you need to run X dungeons before you get your payout. It's fine for the occasional piece of gear, but too much begins to feel like a chore.

    Some may disagree, but I loved the super-rare drops that wow dungeons had in vanilla/early expansions (like headmasters charge, etc.) They were rare enough that most people didn't run the dungeon with an expectation of it ever dropping, but it was a really cool surprise if you saw one. It also kept old dungeons fresh, because even if you didn't really need anything from there, you would always wonder if you might get a Baron mount this time, etc.
  13. Doomgrin

    Doomgrin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Trust me. If an item budget if 200 pts, getting 190 on yours verse the 200 on the drop, people will still consider the drop a big improvement.

    Drops can also have those locked-slot stats they may be much sought after.
  14. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I played WoW from Vanilla through MoP with some on and off times. Raiding in vanilla and in BC you had to work at getting your gear, raids required skill and time, which you got rewarded from. Of course, that was when raid gear looked freaking tits awesome. :D :D

    Why should mediocrity be rewarded?

    If you do not have the time to raid, then PVP or run the solo endgame that they are implementing, but don't complain about not being able to get the cool looking raid gear if you can't spend the time to raid. To be honest that is a phenomenal thing that Carbine is doing, implementing a solo "Elder Game" into Wildstar. So that those who do not have the time to raid can still do something at max level, besides just re-rolling a new toon. Also, Carbine has said that Wildstar is being developed for the hardcore, so those 10-15% or however much or the population is active raiders.

    I both liked and hated LFR in Cata and MoP, because it let me see endgame ,when I didn't have the time to be in a progression raid guild, but it killed the fun of raiding because you could be Pants-On-Head Retarded, and still finish the raid. Mostly, I switched to PVP when I couldn't afford the schedule to raid, run a few BGs a night call it a good day.

    In SwTor, there wasn't a LFR tool, and you couldn't get the raid gear any other way. You knew who was raided because they had the cooler looking gear, at least some of the classes.
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  15. Aresk

    Aresk New Cupcake

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    Do you think the randomization to the PvE dungeons and raids will alleviate some of the raiding grind? The fact that mechanics alternate I think could drastically alter the experience, depending on how it is implemented. I'm curious what other people think regarding "grinding tokens" versus "new experiences in previous content."
  16. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    I think this will help a lot. I hope it extends to the "trash" a little too. I'd take the more massive amounts of patrol based trash we used to get over the meaningless statues we have these days, any day. It took a little longer, but at least it was entertaining.
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  17. Inimicus

    Inimicus Cupcake

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    I'd like to see some unkillable trash, couple of 15 foot tall super guards that you don't kill but have to carefully sneak past without being seen, requiring careful timing and precise movement.

    OR WIZARDS CHESS!!
  18. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's hard to say since we don't know much about how they're implementing the randomization - I think it has the potential to be a great thing and alleviate the tedium of running the same instances week after week, but I think instance-grindyness and loot-grindyness are separate things (even though they are obviously intertwined).

    With tokens you still know you have to run X dungeon Y number of times to get your loot, regardless of how fresh and interesting the dungeon is - so it's a good thing for it's own reasons but I don't think it will have much impact on loot satisfaction.
    Aresk likes this.
  19. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    • Edited for content
    They're saying we have only 6-9 slots. 6 classes. 40 man raids.

    40/6 = 6.6 (repeating of course)

    This means 6 people will need that item that drops off that boss. That means it will take 6 weeks (assuming they follow 1 week resets) for every person to get that piece. If you get the exact same drop, 6 weeks straight and nothing else.... Carbine hasn't done a good enough job at "randomizing" loot.

    People are still stuck in the 10 man mentality that loot gets DE'd in 40 mans. It doesn't for MONTHS. And with 6-9 item slots... how many welfare epics do you need? I'm hoping with 6-9 item slots epics are truly rare, otherwise we're all going to fill up with full epics pretty fast. I know a lot of you are used to that... but in my opinion, that's a horrible idea.
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  20. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    • Edited for content
    Am I the only one who has "Alright chums let's do this. LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOYYYYYYYY JEEEENNNNKINNNSSSSSS!!!!!!"

    Running through their head?


    But in all honesty, you are right. Raiding should be something that is an accomplishment, same with BG/Arena gear. The gear should separate the difference between the casual player and those that actually devote themselves and spend time in the game. If you want the easy path to "raid" gear go play WOW or any console RPG. Those are the games that don't require you to actually try for the gear you want.

    I know I won't or at least probably won't have the time to be a consistent raider and I don't want to just be able to buy the gear that the true raiders and progression pushers can get. That is cheating in my mind. It takes the fun out of raiding and makes it too simple, reason why I left WOW. WOW became too simple when it went to stupid check on it's raids.

    For those that are clamoring for the same type of system that WOW uses, the one that lets you buy gear with tokens/money, please just learn that there are differences between the easy road and the hard one. So you may not have time, you may have a new born baby to take care of, school, a demanding, husband/wife, an active social life, whatever your excuse is please do not take away the accomplishment of those players that are categorized as "core" and do the progression raiding/pvp.

    Take it from someone who was a progression raider, it means quite a bit.
    Mailroomclerk likes this.

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