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End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    You misread my post. I said 25 man, Stone Guard, HEROIC. Yeah, it was easy, and I understand the concept of entry tier raiding. At the same time, we killed HEROIC, 25 man, the FIRST NIGHT it was available, in blues. Shouldn't heroic version require that you have some normal gear first? We had exactly 1 week of normal gear before we attempted, and down, heroic Stone Guard. It took us exactly 6 hours to clear Normal MSV the week it was released, and exactly 3 hours to kill Heroic Stone Guard the next....

    You can't even ACCESS heroic modes until the last boss is down. The system was flawed.
  2. Kihra

    Kihra Cupcake

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    I did not misread your post.

    That isn't how Blizzard designed it. The intent is that a skilled group can clear normals the first week and roll right into Heroics the second week. That doesn't mean you can kill every boss in the Heroic in the 2nd week without Normal mode gear. The bosses have a difficulty curve. Each week you'll do a certain percentage of bosses on Heroic and a certain percentage on Normal, with the Heroic percentage increasing each week.

    In other words, the later bosses of a tier can be tuned so that you have to have Normal mode gear and can have tighter DPS checks, but no, they don't tune it such that you have to spend weeks farming Normal before you can kill even the 1st boss on Heroic. That would be pretty dull, given that it's the same instance. You'd already be sick of the place before you even started in on Heroic difficulty. :)

    Anyway, there's nothing wrong with wanting progression, and I appreciate your point. You can say you don't like that the early Heroics are killable the first week they are available, but it's an intentional design, and one that helps avoid too much content repetition.

    This is all a moot point with WildStar avoiding multiple difficulties of the same content anyway. When you progress through distinct raid instances it makes much more sense to require you to spend time in one before attempting the next.
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  3. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    I still don't understand the argument that 40 man and 20 man loot should be rewarded on the same level.

    If the difficulty of the each raid is equal, then wouldn't that make 40 mans more difficult in terms of organizing, planning schedules, and just having more people. Planning and organizing a raid should not be thrown out the window like some people are doing in this thread. This stuff is ultimately the hardest challenge in an mmo. To set up, lead, and kill bosses with 40 people is an achievement in my eyes.

    40 mans need to be rewarded more so than 20 mans, just because the amount of effort to set up each raid is bigger. They need to be rewarded statically, and visually in my opinion to be relevant. Otherwise people will always choose the path of least resistance, especially in a new game.

    But I do want 20 mans to be relevant to some degree. People who do both 40 and 20 man raids should have an advantage over people who only do 40 or 20 man raids. I want the 20 man loot to be specialized in certain stats, so that in certain situations this loot would be best in slot for a particular class/role. But the majority of the best items should be in 40 mans.

    WoW had established 25 man guilds before Cata, and after the release of Cata these guilds dropped off considerably, because the amount effort required to run these did not meet the reward. Example my guild who was a top 100 guild in both tbc, and wotlk decided 10s were the way to go, because it was just easier to organize. If WoW launched with 10 and 25 man raids, and they dropped the same loot, barely anyone would run the 25 man raids, because the reward would just not be worth it.
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  4. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the 1% comment is getting a little too much attention. In fact, if you look at a game like rift, the top tier of raiding is already designed for the 1%.

    Little bit of math:
    Rift has about 300000 subs (or did when HK launched), 1% of which is 3000. Assuming your average 20 man guild has about 30, members this means the top 1% is 100 guilds (about 5 per server). I know for a fact that less then 50 guilds cleared HK while it was still top tier.

    1% sounds like a really small amount until you realize how many people play mmos and don't even see all the dungeon content or hit max level. I would guess that 90% of the people in this thread are "1%ers".

    Now that's not to say i don't want W* raiding to be balls to the wall hard, I'm just saying that 1% isn't really that different then other games in the genre.
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  5. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

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    With the 20 vs 40 man debate seeming to slow down, i thought it could be pretty interesting to hear peoples opinons on the leaderboards. Didn't really feel like making a seperate thread, since it involves end game raiding.

    I think we are all used to the leaderboards that show guilds progression through a raid zone, ending with the kill on the last boss, but carbine seems to want to take it futher than that:

    Im not sure how they are gonna calculate "being the best", but there is gonna be speed runs and people are gonna be rewarded for it. Im abit concerned about the system, but also intrigued.

    1. What i've seen from hardcore raiding guilds is that they focus on killing the end boss of the raid zone first. They dont care on world first mid boss, boss achievments or topping the speed runs. How do carbine change this habit and what kind of rewards would make you interested in world fastest Molten core run week 3 or World first Ragnaros variation 4?

    2. Is anyone els concerned that raids are gonna be designed around being cleared in 1 day relatively early for the competitive speed run leaderboard?

    3. What other challenges could carbine implement for "being the best on your server or worldwide"

    4. Would you like to see raids change dynamic each week or would you prefer another timescale?
  6. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the point of the system is so that some people may be able to take out the boss one week then have a harder time the next week. They'll have to learn slightly different techniques, adapt to the new gameplay.

    It'll really encourage people trying to do the raids each week (even the easier bosses) as it'll still be challenging and interesting, just in different ways. Never just going through the motions.
  7. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    Depends on how they implement the variety. If it's just something like the different drakes in the Halfus encounter (Bastion of Twilight) or the different active guardians in the Stone Guard encounter (Mogu'shan Vaults), it'll get predictable relatively quick. Bosses will need to have randomized attack patterns throughout the entire fight in order to keep people truly on their toes.
  8. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    This week there shall be lava on the ground you have to avoid, or sandstorms that will slow your attack , movement speed, or crazy undead magic that turns your dead against you!
  9. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Or purple rainbows shooting out of the boss'.....

    Maybe we'll think of some new things.
  10. Epic

    Epic New Cupcake

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    As someone who has never done 40 man raids, I'm interested to see what they're all about. I joined WoW too late and didn't get into it. I also mostly PvP'd for most of my MMO life and only got into casual raiding late into playing WoW. I'm trying to get into more orgainzed Dungeon like activities with the games I play now, but I think I'm really looking forward to trying something of this scale for essentially the first time. So I guess I don't really have an opinion on whether or not I want 40 man raids because I've never done them.

    I will say that probably the best part about all of this is the fact that they can always change this if it doesn't work. Hopefully they get it right though.
  11. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    The 1% of the raiders not the population, big difference.
  12. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm happy that guilds are going to actually be important in Wildstar. Having a reputation will be desired.
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  13. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    That really wouldn't make any sense, by definition, 100% of raiders are going to see the raid content.
  14. Pattybigrig

    Pattybigrig New Cupcake

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    First of all hey there guys, Im new to this forum, and kinda new to waiting for this amazing game! I love raiding and that is my main reason for playing an MMO.

    Me and my friends have been thinking of trying out this games raiding but Ive read that there is only 40 and 20 man raids? Is that true? Is there any talk of adding like 10 man options? I would think limiting it to such large groups would hurt the game a bit..not only is it a pain and sometimes impossible to set up such large raids, not everyone wants to join a HUGE Guild where its really impersonal and would rather be apart of a close knit group, such as me and my IRL friends have.

    Ive seen ONE reference from a dev saying something to the effect of having " Raids anywhere from 5 man all the way to 40 man massive raids" Now I believe that quote is oldish and havent heard anything else about possible 5 or 10 man raids. We as a group are not large enough to pull off even a 20 man raid, so if it really only is those two options that is deeply sadening for me and my friends.

    Thank you for reading and your response :)
  15. Celtkhan

    Celtkhan Well-Known Cupcake

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    5 man dungeons, 20 and 40 man raids (which are individually unique, not the same raid tuned for two sizes).

    There are quotes where someone mentioned 10 mans, but its unknown if they are 10 man dungeons, 10 man raids, or someone just misspoke and 10 man content does not exist.
  16. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Only 40 and 20 men raid sizes will be playable in Wildstar. No 10 men versions are planned.
  17. Pattybigrig

    Pattybigrig New Cupcake

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    That is horribly horribly dissapointing.

    I feel like I want to cry..Ive been so excited.

    Seems odd not to have an option to do a lower person raid which is kinda the norm in todays MMOs. Hope they change their minds about that before Launch, but they probably wont :'(

    Thanks for the answers all the same guys :)
  18. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    There will be 5 man dungeons and adventures. Raids will be 20 man and 40 man, so far as far as PvE goes there is no 10 man content strictly speaking, I mean maybe some world bosses but nothing really catering to that group size.

    PvP does have 10 man options though, Bardic has stated BG will be 10-15 people in her recent interview so maybe that's something?

    Edit: Ninja'd by Black Wolf
  19. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm glad we're going back to the big raid sizes. 10-man and 8-man raids always felt like a joke to me.

    Lol you're not serious about crying, are you?

    Now people will have a reason to be social again. This is good for the community. You and your friends can meet up with some people that have like interests and do 20-man raids. It's good for ya.

    Then if you want to do 40-man raids, you can have lots of friends! YAY!
  20. Clockwerk

    Clockwerk Cupcake

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    Did they deny 10 men dungeons/raids in the meantime?

    Man i miss them so much :-( *nostalgic feelings* 10men URBRS Scholo Stratholme
    I have fond memories what a great time

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