Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.
Well if a goal is happiness, then having fun is progress towards that goal, so productive.
Once you reach a certain point on the traditional psychological hierarchy, not working for portions of your day is actually one of the most productive things you can do.
I love games, else we wouldn't be arguing here However, it's just not the right word lol. Not according to the definition. The only people for which games are productive, are the devs/publishers/stockholders/company owners, for the rest of us, they are just fun, relaxing, beneficial. However, not an English native speaker, so maybe I'm missing something
Productive just means the action produces something desired. It is normally associated with what people believe to be 'proper' goals (i.e. money, including indirectly), but is not strictly so.
If they're fun/relaxing/beneficial, surely they're not "a waste of time"?
Just to explicitly state the relation this has to the topic at hand: if one thinks that the whole game is a 'waste' of time, then it can be used to justify having very tedious and boring sections of a game, as those sections can't be wasting one's time any more than simply playing the game.
I like this thread. Think we should get back on topic...
Slightly off topic but this made my day (is this really present in LFR by the way as that would make my year?)
I meant pugging a person or two because one of your raiders is out, or when forming a new raid group.
There's no LFR planned for Wildstar. Not yet anyway.
I think LFR just dashed ambition for a lot of players. Many of them get the "pretty shiney" gear from the LFR and are content. This is because the next step is a PUG raid group, as actual raid groups say "Oh... great... you've done LFR... sure you're ready for an actual raid... (not)" So, I'm hoping they just don't allow LFR, not to mention half the time it turns into a zerg-fest or a troll-fest. Sure it makes the harder content more accessible, but with actual solo endgame I don't know that it's necessary.
Yeah I knew that (thank god). I should have been clearer that I was wondering if WoW LFR had been dumbed down to the level in the cartoon where they buff you when you fail as that's pretty priceless if so.
<Grumpy Old Raider Voice>
Back in Dark Age of Camelot we used to raid dragons with over a HUNDRED PLAYERS and we LIKED IT! I don't need none of your new-fangled ten and twenty man raiding!
</Grumpy Old Raider Voice>
Really though, looking forward to 40 man raids. I'd prefer if the gear rewards were superior stat-wise to 20-man, as well as different art-wise. I'm really sick of re-colors.
I understand the concerns about 40-man guilds sniping the firsts and accomplishments of 20-man guilds, which is why I think the following proposal would work:
1) The 'ranked' raids system is in place, offering rewards of some kind
2) 40-man gear is better than 20-man gear.
When toggling a Ranked run, all gear has limiters placed on it per the dungeon. Gear item level hits certain limits, and the limit of the gear is such that bringing 40-man gear into the dungeon does not give you any advantage whatsoever over 20-man players. (Item levels would be limited to what the dungeon expects you to be entering with for progression, rather than what the dungeon gives you as drops.)
This would prevent a 20-man raid entering with item level 1 gear being beaten out by a 40-man raid doing the 20-man dungeon with item level 3 gear that has been depowered to the drop level, item level 2. Rather, everyone would be item level 1.
Ranked Raids would be an optional toggle, so that if a guild wants to power through the dungeon without worrying about ranking or being at less than their best, they can.
Not sure. Thoughts?
I'd love something that limited you to the drops that you got from that dungeon/raid or alternatively just below (2 separate limiting options). You could then go back and do earlier game content by limiting yourself to either just before or just after that dungeon/raid, letting you do 2 different difficulty levels. This opens up content that is no longer relevant to you to run either just for fun or to help your guildies progress without it being boring (if you feel like it, else you can just power them through).
Would be good to be tied into a system where if you are limiting yourself down your lower level team mates counted you as the lower level (so you could help level your friends easier / less exploitive).
I'm looking forward to 40's raiding - didn't really get started in WoW , and wasn't very enjoyable due to having to be in a large guild of random people in order to participate (far too many squeeky voices on vent). I'm hoping that the Circle system will come to my aid here, since my best days in WoW were when in a very small guild of RL friends & we teamed up with 2 other similar guilds .
I think a few 'stepping stone' mini-raids would help in the transition from 5 to 20 mans, something like the 10man Scholo/Strat & 10/15 man UBRS in vanilla; get people used to working in larger groups.
I've never liked 40 man raids, they were a pain to organize, and required less group coordination because of how impossible a task getting 40 people to work well together.
Hell, in the gap between 10 to 25 man you see a major discrepancy with how well the synergy between a group is. Also, juggling afks, no shows, and having the correct number of tanks and healers is pretty damn tough.
In the end, I would prefer to have 10 and 25 mans, not only does it help in organizing, controlling, and maintaining a group, but it also helps out smaller guilds that are just getting into raiding.
It almost seems as if this is for the classic vanilla players who look at 40 man raiding through rose tinted glasses. Sure, it may seem like a great idea, but, in application, it's not as great as it may seem.
I can say the exact same thing to you.
My 40 man experience was amazing. I was on great servers, always had people wanting to app, never had logistic issues at all. On the contrary, my smaller guild experiences were the exact opposite of that. 1 guy has something to do, and we just lot someone, and now it's impossible to find a replacement.
Also to say that it's impossible to get 40 people to work well together... this once again shows you had bad experiences in 40 mans. Most people on these forums would disagree with you, and I suggest you go into it with a clean slate and an open mind
I'm not sure you should be speaking for "most people on these forums", but that is besides the point.
I guess saying it's an "impossible task" may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but it more than fair enough to say, with more people cohesion crumbles. As I've stated, even in a smaller setting; (comparing 10 to 20 mans) synergy suffers. There is a reason it was scrapped.
Also, you may have had a great time in 40 mans, but you presume far too much about me....
The essence of this argument seems to be "My group wasn't able to maintain the cohesion that 40-man content wanted, and so other groups that could shouldn't get to do that content either."
Keeping in mind that traditionally, raiding has always been aimed at the hardcore playerbase, and that Wildstar has specifically mentioned that 40-man raiding is targeting that same hardcore playerbase, this seems disingenuous.
It's always seemed to me that the raid size reduction was more about letting more of the playerbase 'see the content' than it was anything else, and WoW's iterations upon its raid design seem to back that up all the way through Cataclysm.
How does "smaller group size" = less *hardcore*. Raids are balanced according to group size, thus smaller groups actually require more "cohesion".
Again, it's hilarious that everyone seems to presume that I wasn't able to do the content. It's a pretty pathetic argument, but if you feel the need to discredit me rather than my argument...../shrug.
Also, it's not as if WoWs scrapping of 40 mans was in Cataclysm, and they still have plenty of "hardcore" content like hard modes. If 40 mans was a good design and if there was demand enough, it wouldn't have been scrapped in the first place.
At least I'm making presumptions and not assumptions! I speak for "most people" on these forums, because WSC is full of people who are here BECAUSE 40 man raids. This will officially be the only game that has came out in the past 6 years with 40 man raid content in the west(to my knowledge). That's a big deal to me, and...sorry, but most people on these forums. You're more than welcome to search previous threads and polls. While not everybody here shares the same views and opinions, the GRIPPING feature that makes this MMO, which isn't ALL that different from a lot of other MMOs, is that it has 40 man raids. If it didn't, my interest in it would be significantly reduced.... I'll speak for myself on that last one =)
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