1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Clockwerk

    Clockwerk Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'm really happy that we are going back to 40 man raids ! Loved those massive battles
    Unfortunately there are no pre raid dungeons a la 10 man , which slso maked smaller group-players happy
  2. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Likes Received:
    185
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    How would you handle the issues with reset? If your progression is such that you don't make it through the 5 bosses, you never see the 8. And if it's easy enough to complete 5 fairly quickly, then what do the 20 man groups do for the rest of the week. (not being argumentative. I like the idea.)

    Maybe make it so you can convert a 20 man to 40? But then you run into problems with guildies sitting and raid ID"s conflicting maybe ...
  3. Alexai

    Alexai Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Its pretty much this. A great example is in my WoW guild, we played 25s for quite some time, but the logistics were just so much easier that we moved to two 10 mans instead (voluntarily - not because we couldn't field 25s). You have less attendance to worry about, less loot drama, less farming before raids, and in general a lot less preparation that needs to go into putting the raid together. Why should my officer corps and I work harder for the exact same reward when we can get almost the exact same amount of the same reward? If 25s offered a higher ilvl (see China, Korea, etc.) then you'd see a lot more 25 man guilds purely because all the min-maxers would flock to those guilds to get the best gear. As it stands now though, its just easier to run 10s.

    If Wildstar takes the same approach, but gives better items from 40 man, maybe even some unique items (ala WotLK) for the larger raid size you'd probably see a lot more guilds support the format. Yes, some folks will complain, but the door is wide open for them to find a 40 man guild that suits their raid times. The only thing holding most of them back is themselves, not the guilds (imo).
    Lethality likes this.
  4. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    334
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Costa Rica, Central America
    Not much of a raider myself (but I did run some 40-mans), but I'm glad raiders are getting lots of love. As long as the Carbine folks can spread the love to soloers, dungeon runners, crafters, etc, then it should be no problem.

    I'm more of a soloer and dungeon raider for end game, with a little bit of PVP. So if those get some love, I'll be as happy as a salami in a pizza!
  5. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    564
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Nova scotia, Canada
    I remember reading you can extend the raid id for a week or something similar.

    But that would be the hard part for 40 man raiding, finishing the content that a 20 man raid would see aka the 5 bosses and then working and finishing the extra three bosses.

    But to be honest, thats just the old raider in me speaking.
    These days im very much a small group content, soloer , crafter and will be a huge housing nut.
  6. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    We've been using RL+3RA system. RL is worried about 40 as a whole and his own group of 10 and how they function. 3 RAs were doing same for their 10 man cell each and relay info to RL. It's tedious, and still doesn't remove screw-ups here and there, but such system can control that machine. That is if you can find good RAs.

    As for rewards balancing... It's fine if quality is same between 20 and 40. If there is a case of 70% and more of playerbase considering 20 being better than 40 - time to pump up quantity at 40. 20 will gear up slower, but they will gear up and avoid 40 man drama. Those that prefer gear over their sanity would pick 40 over 20 man. Win-win.
  7. Zerdav

    Zerdav Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Errant Unit
    I'm sorry, but if 40 man raid is different than 20, every boss and the whole raid is extra content. Why would it need more bosses to top?

    If indeed 40 mans require less skill than 20 mans, if they require the same even, why should rewards be better?
  8. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    564
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Nova scotia, Canada
    If they are different then its a moot point. I was talking more about 20/40 man versions of the same raid.
  9. Zerdav

    Zerdav Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Errant Unit
    Was that confirmed? I don't see the point in such a thing.
  10. Deltre

    Deltre Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    SoCal
    I am stoked for 40 man raids, never really got to do them in vanilla. Spent all of BC raiding though made it up to 4/6 SWP, and I really missed those tough fights. I'll have so much free time when this game comes out, and be back in Cali. So excited.
  11. Lyas Tyrell

    Lyas Tyrell Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Canada!

    I disagree with this, and I will tell you why.

    40 Man raids, if done right, are more challenging. Thinking back to say Molten Core as an example. Certain fights were built and designed for the raid size (Barron Geddon, Majordomo, Rags). The challenges should be different.

    I would be very disappointed if we got the same raids just in different sizes 20 and 40 man, with adjusted stats. That seems pretty lazy, and frankly pretty un-wildstar.

    The greater the people the greater the difficulty. People have this misconception that 40mans mean you can just slack off, cause there are so many raiders. But truly enjoyable 40man raids require everyone to be engaged and skillful. A 40man raid where people can slack off and sit there, half assing DPS and chatting on vent, and still down bosses? That's not a 40man raid. That's a 20man with too many people.

    If the point of Wildstar Raiding is to be Challenging and fun, then a 40man raid will engage the entire raid party. In fact it's my sincere wish that they keep this in mind while designing and building raids.

    You may not like big groups of people and that's fine, but I do think 40man raiding should be the most difficult, and therefore give the highest rewards. To be clear I don't think someone in 40man raid gear should be able to faceroll every 20man just cause he did a 40man or two. BUT, the rewards should be noticeably better.
  12. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    i only got to do Naxx as 25man, but! the damn safety dance...omg. When we were doing it, we lived in the middle of nowhere po-dunk arkansas where we only had access to satellite internets (which is not technically supported by blizzard...), so we had 3000ms latency some days, on good days we had 400-500 ms latency. my proudest moment in that raid was successfully doing the safety dance without getting hit a single time while at 3500 ms latency. 3.5 second delay...pain.in.the.arse!!! everyone cheered for me in vent when they saw i was still alive and the even more when they realized that i hadn't needed to be rezzed either.
  13. Vossler

    Vossler Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I just hope they're doing raids in the AQ style. 20 and 40man but they're both completely different.
    That way raiding doesn't get boring insanely fast and the 40man having different and better loot makes complete sense.
    Mierelle likes this.
  14. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Just to give you a heads up there won't be 20 man versions of 40 man raids. So, to balance raid difficulty between 2 completely different raids with different bosses would be an impossible task.

    I am also on the side of the fence that because the raids are completely different its ok for items from both raids to have similar gear, but not the same gear. Let me explain the 40 mans drop complete sets for all slots, and if this game has tier gear the tier gear would drop in the 40 man raid. In the 20 man raid it would not drop full sets of gear, but rather specialized gear that was still good, and in some cases could be best in slot for some classes/roles. Kind of a similar set up to vanilla wow with how 20 man and 40 man interacted back then.

    And to keep this on track, I can't wait for 40 mans to be back in the game. I remember reading about these things last december, and have been hyped about this game ever since.
  15. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    564
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Nova scotia, Canada
    Awesome, glad that there was some confirmation that the two raid sizes are completely different raids. My worries are gone!
  16. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    So to rephrase we are talking about WoW BC separation system - only 10man Kara, only 25 GL, only 25 TK etc?

    Absolutely fine with it then. Still dunno whenever I'd be able to control a full raid again and how crazy it would be to run one in WS, but if there is no sacrifices to make for gearing up a static group (because there is no choice) - it's perfect.
  17. Draegan

    Draegan Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I was really happy to learn that the raids in this game are only of one difficulty. I really don't like how WOW watered down raids with mutliple sizes and difficulty. It cheapens the experience a bit.

    Also it's hard to compare experiences with others because you have to determine size and difficulty before you can even get a sense of what level you are on compared to others.

    But so far, we know there will be Raiding and PVP of normal fashions. In raids, you'll have multiple instances to go after and in PVP you'll have your normal fare with arenas, bgs. What I'm interested in seeing is what else will Wildstar offer? Warplots are for guilds, Raiding is for guilds. So if you're not a fan of raiding or PVP what does Wildstar offer you?

    There will of course be "heroic dungeons" and solo adventurers that tell the story, but will that be enough for level cap players? WOW took a turn for the worse, in my opinion, by layering the game with a myriad of daily quests that worked towards faction gain.

    So if you're a PVE player, that leaves you with crafting and one other new part of the game: Paths. I'd love to know what paths give plaeyrs to do once they are capped out.

    --

    Another thing I'd like to really see is how progression is actually paced. Are we going to see a token system where you treadmill through heroic/expert dungeons to gear yourself out. This way you know you have X amount of dungeons left until you are "done" or will we see the old school crossing your fingers for that drop?

    Will raiders slowly gear up over months, or will it be quicker? Hopefully the game is just dynamic enough during raids so players don't get bored of doing them as fast as they do in other games.
  18. Xryus

    Xryus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'm looking forward to the raiding in W*. Hopefully the amount of mats and such needed to raid will not take forever. So many hours spent looking for plants and cooking. I'll be raiding, but I'd also like to enjoy the other parts of the game as well like PvP.

    I'm not sure how I feel about attunements yet. Some of the steps needed were actually very cool, but got kinda old quick when you had to replace people. Guess we'll find out that kinda stuff at some point.
    Poet likes this.
  19. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Just want to bring that up so you can hate me for being "that guy" and keep arguing on raid content.
  20. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yea each raid is different just like tbc, and vanilla wow. Yea its definitely a huge task to be able lead one these things, and something I won't be willing to do either haha. But, I can't wait to go into one of these guilds and contribute all that I can.

Share This Page