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End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Personally, 40 man could be exciting, though I have to poke my partner into getting into a guild for that which works with our casual raid desire and our off-times xD - hes in the US, I am in europe, so yeah. Only afternoon raids for us on the US servers, which is off-time.

    I still hope it can happen though, and that we will get a smooth progression from dungeons into raids rather than a tremendous difficulty jump. People brought this up before, but this is what I really care about. Being able to learn to become good, rather than being expected to be good already. Much like in wow where people were "you cant learn to tank this encounter, you have to have tanked the encounter already to learn to tank it" and stuff like that.
  2. Silvers

    Silvers New Cupcake

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    I never got to do 40 man raids in WoW because i hit the level cap right as BC came out, so I am definitely looking forward to trying them. I feel as though I will ultimately prefer doing 20 man raids though just because waiting for 40 people to all be ready sounds like a huge pain lol.

    Slightly off topic but i thought i remember reading there is also a 10 man dungeon/raid? Is this true? I feel like 10 mans would be perfect for my group of friends so I am really hoping they are included as well.
  3. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its a brand new game, everyone will be learning. From class mechanics, to how to dungeons/raids work. That is what is so great about new mmos. But, I am sure you will run into a few sour grapes that might demand perfection right from the start, and the funny thing is these people will probably be making a lot of mistakes as well.

    Just find a group of similar minded people who you and your partner want to group with, and I am sure you will have fun. Its all about finding a guild that you have fun with, so can avoid those sour grapes. :p
  4. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh I don't necessarily think the community will be the issue, perhaps aside from the profession raid guilds. Me I'm mostly concerned about the content possessing a smooth leveling curve so you can finish up your dungeon runs for gear and at this point, know enough about how to handle encounters that you can take on the first raid boss and be like "hey, this is harder than dungeons, but I can manage" and learn, rather than be obliterated and having to throw yourself face first at the difficulty wall a few times.

    Eventually things will get too hard for some people, but I'd rather see a sliding scale than a brick wall.
    As for 40 man raids, I've said before, I'm excited for them though and want to really try those out.
  5. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm pretty sure they stated that the 20 and 40 man raids would be completely unique, not the same dungeon but more loot.

    I agree about smaller raid sizes. If done right, 40 man casualties can still be significant, but smaller sizes inherently mean less people to fill each roll.

    Have you raided WoW: Cataclysm content? I'm pretty sure what they're going for here is similar to "Halfus Wyrmbreaker" from Bastion of Twilight. The boss was a dragon tamer and his fighting arena was filled with 5 or 6 captured drakes, all with unique abilities. The cool part about the fight was that every day there was a different combination of drakes that had cages unlocked, leading to different mechanics to account for each fight. After clearing trash everyone would run to the first boss (Halfus) and then over Vent you hear, "Oh <REDACTED>, twilight drake is up," and the entire raid starts to wimper in unison.

    If they go even remotely like that, the "random plugs" are going to be from a limited set that is factored in when designing the fight.
  6. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    "random skills on bosses" ... do we know this is a correct interpretation? I remember seeing mention of boss fights having a random element. But at the time, I took it to mean that maybe timing of attacks, or order of attacks would be the random element.
  7. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    Looking forward to organised raiding again. The last few MMO's I have played with a close group of friends so while we've pretty much destroyed all single group content they had to offer (SWTOR Foundry when Revan + HK were still bugged was...interesting but we did it anyway) but the raiding has been what I'd call sub-par either due to lack of numbers or lack of organisation/ability due to the guilds we've tagged along with.

    Looking forward to all the aspects really but raiding the most definitely.
  8. ebakrans

    ebakrans Cupcake

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    Just my 2 cents here, I love 40 man raids, they were awesome back in vanilla! The problem is since vanilla wow came out I have gotten married, had a kid, gotten a grown up job etc ... And while I love the idea of 40 man raids, when I get time to play wow LFR is all I have time for. I am all for the 40 man raids having the best loot, and I wouldn't even care if there was some wildstar LFR system that gave only blues or something.

    I really like raiding but I just don't have the time to spend hours a night going through them, I know a lot of my friends are in the same boat we have 10 solid players in my guild but we found with peoples schedules and RL responsibilities the only thing we could do is queue up for LFR and all hop in vent and have a good time for 45-60 minutes. With the chopped up raids (3 bosses per wing) it just works out we just don't have time to try and setup even the 10 man normal raids on any schedule.

    I wouldn't even mind if an LFR style system was always a tier behind current content instead of the wow system where both LFR and normal/heroic are in the same tier. I wouldn't mind waiting a few months after the first raid gets out to start getting into a more casual raid with lower tier gear just to see it!
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  9. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    20 Man raids are completely different than 40 Man raids. To say either is more challenging than the other is completely ignorant. To state your previous experience as fact, not opinion, is completely ignorant. Open your minds. 40 Man raids are here to stay, there are plenty of MMO's out there for you if you prefer smaller raids, or you could always do the 20 man raids, or rumored 10man content. Your opinions are valued, but at the same time.... try to keep an open mind. That is all. Me love you long time.
  10. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    His name was Halfus? What a dumb name. I always called him dragon roulette.

    Let's assume that there will be this kind of random, factored into mechanic like a variable. How it would be done? Would some bosses have this variable and some does not, or it will be that every big loot sack have it's own pool to draw random conditions out?

    Don't you think it's gonna get tiring that each boss is actually n bosses with same smell, but mixed with different ingredients?
  11. MaxT

    MaxT Cupcake

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    My opinion on this, and this has been mentioned before, is to make all the content of the game available to as many players as possible. The developers spend a tremendous amount of time, creativity, and just pure effort designing and creating the content, which a large percentage of players will never get to see or experience unless you count watching it on Youtube.

    Make the same raids available to 20 and 40 players. Same environment, same lore, same bosses but different loot tables. And adjust the fight mechanics accordingly. Make the hardcore guilds/players go for the 40 man / better loot. But make the content available for the smaller guilds so they could experience the fun and see the same content but with loot that is not as good but is still better than running heroic dungeons.

    Raiding in vanilla WoW was some of the most fun I ever had, but not because it was with 39 other people, it's because MMOs were fairly new back in those days and WoW was the first to get things right (maybe Everquest was first, not sure). Raiding felt epic back then and that's why it was fun.

    Personally, I am MUCH more inclined to keep my subscription going, or pay for expansions, etc. if I get to experience raid content. It is much more likely for me to do so in 20 man raids instead of 40. So why shut me out of half the raiding content? Make the content available and accessible, just reward the effort appropriately.
  12. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    How did I never think of this genius idea? It really hits the nail on the head. LFR people don't care about playing End Game Content. "I paid for this game and I still sink a ton of hours into it, why can't I play the whole thing? I just want to have fun." Heck, in most MMOs the only way to even see the storyline conclude you have to raid. Solo PvE elder content is traditionally just the lead up to the next tier raid.

    The one thing I really liked about WoW's LFR is that all the gear had reduced stats and a distinctly different color scheme. Casuals could go around the cities in sweet looking gear, but everyone knew who the 'big guys' were.
  13. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope the last para was your opinion too. Because to me, it was because there were 39 others. And to Dave, it was because he was a roelplayer, and to Bridget, it's because her mom never told her she would kill Rag...get it? Motivations are different for each person.

    To say that 40 man content was epic because it was new is also impossible to know. Personally, when 40 mans were taken OUT, I stopped playing WoW. See... different experiences for different people. I, PERSONALLY, was always more JEALOUS/ENVIOUS of players that got to experience certain boss fights, and come out on top, than I was those with great gear. So for me, giving better gear to 40 man raids means nothing.

    Also, the "make all the content of the game available to as many players are possible" was Blizzard's fail marketing idea that started the decline of WoW. WoW is an anomaly, just like Halo, and CoD, and LoL, and the addons/updates/new versions of those games have continued to RISE over the years, whilst WoW's continues to fall. Some players actually desire challenge, and WANT things to seem out of reach. 40Man content is clearly challenging for anybody out of high school... that's alluring to people.

    I'll say it once, and again, and a million times more if I have to. Naxx40 was cleared by less than 50 guilds WORLD WIDE before BC came out. Most people believe it to be the greatest, most epic, amazing raid Blizzard created (possibly NEXT to Ulduar, which was based more off beauty and diversity than epic and 'unimaginable'). I would rather play a game with content I could never imagine seeing, knowing that only the most epic of the epic defeat it, hoping one day I'm able to, than play a game where content is as easy as putting in my CC number for $15 a month.

    And lastly... there are 20 man raids, and raiding is only ONE PART of Elder Game. You have HOURS of other content, and I'm POSITIVE Carbine will design 20 mans to feel important, and relevant.
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  14. ebakrans

    ebakrans Cupcake

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    That is it exactly, I like the wow LFR system because you do get some shiny new upgrades over what you get in the heroic dungeons and that is always fun, but they aren't even close to the top tier guys and I am ok with that. In fact since LFR is my end game the LFR gear is now my best in slot. I don't want people to feel like they need to run LFR/Normal every week so stagger them, what I want is a way for a more casual player to still see all that wildstar has to offer.

    And like you said most stories end, or at least take part in raids and that is always a bummer when you get to that point and realize your guild can't get in there to see it and then you are stuck with a quest you will never finish. Or if you do finish it, it is years later when that content is now trivial.
  15. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree, this is going to be the biggest challenge for Carbine when making raid fights. I imagine it will be less "dragon roulette" ^.^ and more environmental plugs.

    Theoretical situation:
    Underground magma cavern, many pillars supporting the ceiling because someone's mining for an Eldan artifact. The random plug is based on the ground of the arena.

    Boss's attacks/fight mechanics are always the same but the environment could change each day
    -mining opens up a fissure and the ground cracks with lava
    -unstable mining causes a pillar to fall on the battle field. It's a major obstruction
    -the drill has debris actually falling during the fight
    -the drill actually mines to the artifact and it's a turret shooting at you!
    -the drill is offline and you get it easy because it's the last day before raid reset :p
  16. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    So I think what you'e saying is that you would choose to run 20 man only, and therefore those who want to run 40 man should see the same content you can see. Instead of limiting other peoples' experience, why not look into guild alliances for the 40 man raids if you want to see them? Or just forget they are there.

    I'm pretty sure I'll be running both, if I'm able.
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  17. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    While I agree with the sentiments, a bit more tact in phrasing would go along way in making points come across without heating up the discussion. Its a case of prose before passion since this subject is a big factor to most folks.
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  18. MaxT

    MaxT Cupcake

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    It was. I am by no means trying to speak on behalf of everyone out there. :p
    You are contradicting yourself quite a bit in your statements. You can still have top dog guilds do the 40 man raids and claim the world firsts and be among the handful of the elite guilds who cleared the 40 man content. Why should that affect the other 60 % (or whatever the number is for the casual vs hard core raiders)?

    The challenge and the bragging rights would remain for those who would chose to run the 40 man raids, but more players would be able to experience the content through the 20 man raids. How is that not a win-win?
  19. MaxT

    MaxT Cupcake

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    Not sure what you mean by limiting their experiences? They would run their 40 man raids just as they normally would.
    They can do it for a greater challenge, bragging right, better loot, or whatever their reasons would be.
    Are you saying that if you are not elite enough you don't deserve seeing the content others can?
    Why not just reward the people appropriately for the effort they put in?
  20. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    ^This!!!

    This is a message every MMO dev needs to see. We needs things to reach for. We may never attain them, but knowing that they are out there as a goal is so important. As soon as that carrot is easy to reach, its value drops.
    Kataryna likes this.

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