1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Flawz

    Flawz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    North Carolina
    There is no End Game, its Elder Game :p hehe. I mainly PvP, but I do all raids because I love to do everything lol. 40 Mans were REALLY fun as long as you don't have to explain everything every 5 seconds to people. I do not mind explaining a few times if needed. but having to repeat the same thing to the same people over and over take Lots of time away from an already time consuming thing.

    With WildStar's Combat system and ever changing fights. 40 man raids should be very fun and epic!!!! And with the telegraph system combined with limited action set means that people can look at the screen and stay out of the yukky that gets you killed instead of looking at their keyboard at the 50 skills or trying to hit them. They can simply set up their limited set and memorize it easy and run around staying out of bad telegraphs and hopping into the good ones :) I'm sure its going to be very very tough fights. But at least you know where the damage and heals are comming from.
  2. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I hate this stereotype. The research at the daedalus project shows that the average mmo gamer is 26, older like many people believe. Also, the study shows that people who play mmos more tend to watch tv less to the point where the amount of media you watch/play is the same accros the board.


    (the specific article)
    Playing mmos for an average of 21 hours and watching tv for 7 hours is no different then the average American who watches tv for 28 hours a week. I know plenty of raiders with jobs/kids/school/social lives/ect.
    Haoli, Joukehainen, Calsic and 2 others like this.
  3. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    pretty sure I've read every bit of info about Wildstar (i'm Random Kat after all, and can usually pull a comment out of a hat with a link included in less than 2 minutes!) and I've never heard of anything like a "mercenary system" associated with Wildstar. so you'd best pull up a link for me ;)
    Mudfin likes this.
  4. Jinxis

    Jinxis New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Canada
    Raid AND have a life outside your chosen MMO?! Blaspheme! :p
  5. Cupcake

    Cupcake Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    A galaxy far far away
    I agree with this I remember joining my first Molten Core raid, that in itself was an achievement because I had to get the gear and the attunement and that was not something you could do overnight. I am really hoping to get that vanilla wow raid feeling in Wildstar. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic but those were the funnest raid experiences.

    Anyone else remember having to /dance while afk in a raid break because there was no /readycheck command
    Joukehainen likes this.
  6. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US
    At the moment, I am disappointed with what I'm reading about what Wildstar's raiding is probably going to end up being. I'm all for going back to an era of raid design that fostered dedication and persistence the likes of which has not been seen in todays gaming for quite some time, but I fear there is a bit too much nostalgia running through a lot of this community and the development team.


    I myself prefer small raid sizes for several reasons. Large raid sizes tend to foster cliques whereas smaller raid teams tend to be a bit more cohesive. Cliques, from personal experience, tend to create drama within the team. I also think I'm of the few that doesn't actually get this grandiose epic feeling when beating on a monster with 39 other people. I just don't! I always feel fights are more epic the less people there are.


    With this in mind, I'm very worried. I very much planned to find a smaller tight-nit guild and stick with 20 man raiding, but from what I've read in this thread it feels like this community, and Carbine, will treat 20 man raiders as second class citizens.


    Another concern I have is with the two raid sizes being completely different à la Ahn'Qiraj. The idea of having different environments with different bosses sounds cool and would probably alleviate a lot of the balancing problems I see in World of Warcraft today, but that's the only part about Ahn'Qiraj that I like. The rest of that design is quite archaic, and I feel like should be replaced with something similar to (but not a copy-paste of) ICC design.

    Here's how I'd like raid design in Wildstar to be: 20m and 40m are two completely different raids that share a theme (à la Ahn'Qiraj). They each have their own loot tables but share a similar loot distribution. 40m loot is "generally" better (similar to WoW's current normal vs. heroic gearing). The loots visuals are distinct and not shared (full 20m set looks different than 40m set). They share a lockout between the two as to prevent players from needing to run both raids to "optimize". Amount of loot dropped should be (X2)+1 (where X represents the amount of loot 20m gets).

    With this methodology, 40m raids are "technically" the better raids, and 40m raiders are rewarded justly ("better" and more loot per boss) but its not the be all end all content if you don't want it to be (like me). Hell if that isn't enough for 40m raiders, give them your cartoon villain bosses as well (à la Illidan, Lich King).

    Just please Carbine... let me have my smaller size yet still challenging raid content.
  7. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    350
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sudbury, Ontario
    You basically just described from what I've read Wildstar raiding is going to be like, they have said the loot of the two raids will be different and unique but never said that 20 mans will be progression to 40 mans. They have the different sizes to give players with a different interest an equally valid and engaging raiding experience.

    The sole exception here is I think they have stated raids won't share a lockout so you could in theory do both (I could be wrong here but I'm fairly sure.); however, with both raids being as hard as they are planned to be I don't know if most people will have the time to do that and still progress meaningfully in both.
    Mudfin and Jarinolde like this.
  8. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US
    Oh thank god if that really is the case then. I didn't read the entire thread but the further I went the more worried I got that this game was just going to be all about 40 mans.

    Well to be honest I only included that because it became a necessity in World of Warcraft. In that game though, at the time shared lockouts were implemented, was because players could clear both versions within a raid reset. If Carbine truly delivers on challenging raid content then yea this wouldn't be needed.
  9. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Ha! I found it! And one of the links is from you.

    Circles
    Thread on Small PvE guilds.

    Now of course my interpretation was all wrong :p . I was caught up in thinking on a small scale. But it's still possible for the smaller groups to make a Raiding circle and do 20 or 40 mans.

    Guess I was reading all that info with what I wanted to hear, and not what was being said :roflamo:.
  10. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I'm with you here. Now I know they have decided on 20 Man as the smaller raid content. Not sure I understand this as 20 man to me is not small. 10 man would have been more logical (and yes my logic is colored by my preference) to go along with the 40 man raids.

    My main hope is that they give us great small group content at Elder game.
  11. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    yea, or smaller groups make circles and then join up together into a raiding guild, which is what i'm sure lots of people are going to be doing. Circles are kinda like mini-guilds, is how i've been taking that information - they have their own chat channels and member list, kinda like a guild.
  12. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Secret Society of Bearded Manly Men is going to happen. Finally.
    Mudfin likes this.
  13. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ill try to find the interview, but im pretty sure i remember someone saying that you would have to get gear from the 20man to do the 40mans.
  14. Glacius

    Glacius Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Lol looks like I don't have to say a word since Meak pretty much expressed how I feel. I do want to chime in a bit about the different raid sizes. I think that having different sized raids can be tricky but can also be a great way to capture a feel of a particular raid and it can be refreshing to have different sizes.

    For example, in vanilla wow when zg was introduced you had the opportunity to get into raiding a lot quicker by halving the players required and introducing epics that would facilitate entry into the larger raids. Not only that, but the raid itself felt right for being at 20 players. It was also a lot of fun because my guild would have two teams running zg simultaneously and we would compete with each other.

    In BC, you had Kara and later ZA being at 10 man as opposed to the 25 mans. Possibly one of the better raids of WoW, Kara was only a 10 man. Could it have been 20 or 40? Sure, but it was a different experience just having 10 people. It was refreshing, not only in raid size but also how immersive it was; it was long and expanding while introducing unconventional fights like Chess.

    I'm really hoping that Carbine sticks to the format they are advertising. It really turns me off from a product when a developer states several features and either discards those promises or executes them horribly. It's an awful feeling being hopeful for a game and then being lied to. Games like TOR and GW2 promised a lot but didn't follow through in my opinion. If you state 40 mans as a defining feature of your game and if you claim to cater to '1%ers' then stay true to your word regardless of complaints or pressure or just don't advertise your game that way.
  15. atom

    atom Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I'd like to make a suggestion that not all games are developed for all people. Some games want hardcore players who desire 40man raids and painstakingly difficult bosses who make you want to consider why you're still playing the game. Those games exist, and the designers intended that. Perhaps, not all games being for all people, WildStar does not desire to be for you, but for the latter. There is no one forcing you to play a game being design with the express, written intent to attract and pander to the hardcore crowd.
    Vembumees and MeakGG like this.
  16. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US
    I'd just like to point out something. I am in full happy to see what they are doing with raiding. I very much love how they are going back to more old school raid design and more importantly, challenging raid content. I'm very much excited at the thought of spending hours a night working on a boss that we may not kill for several weeks!

    What I have a problem with is being limited to one group size if I want to be that "1%'er". That if I want to play with a smaller group size, I must be content with less challenging content, less content overall and extremely inferior gear (extremely being the key word).

    I have a problem with players and developers believing that I cannot be a "1%'er" just because I don't do the largest raid size content. That somehow, 20 extra people makes myself much more "hardcore". That's just stupid.
  17. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    That's not at all how people feel, devs and this playerbase alike. You are failing to understand that there is a difference of GAME here.

    Three AAA console FPS titles: Gears of War, Halo, and Call of Duty.

    If I prefer a game with 1 hit kills, spawning, and classes... I choose Call of Duty.
    If I prefer a game with gore, and shotgun battles only, that's insanely team based... I choose Gears.
    If I prefer a game with map control, team work, and weapons on board... I choose Halo.

    I don't go on the forums and tell the devs of Gears to make classes, or the devs of Call of Duty to make a head explode when I shoot it with a sniper riffle. I play whatever game I want, because I have that liberty. This is 1 MMO of many, and if your problem is that end game raiding is limited to 40 man raids, what gives you the entitlement to say that's wrong? There are hundreds of MMOs that represent a different PVE play style. I'm so lost on why all these new guys are trying to change this game. Why do gamers feel they have the right to complain about something they've never even experienced. At least wait 6 months after release to start saying your opinions of it. Man my patience is dwindling here! Sorry.

    Should I get the best gear in the game by doing solo dungeons?
  18. MaxT

    MaxT Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I believe I have mentioned this once already...just because somebody is a newcomer to this forum or to the game does not make their opinion any more or less valuable than yours.

    This one I can agree with. However, suggestions never hurn anyone before. The devs will get much more solid feedback once the beta gets to the point where people can test the raid content.

    Nobody is saying 20 man gear should be equal to 40 man gear...you are just assuming that.

    Bottom line is let other people express their opinion.
  19. serenedream

    serenedream Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Virginia
    ^^This!!!
  20. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Opinions are great, and I've never said mine is better. My OPINION is people should keep an open mind and actually experience what they're doing here before they go on rants on new loot systems, new raid systems, all these things that are represented in WoW. This isn't WoW. It looks similar, and has similarities, but it plays differently. Can we let Wildstar be Wildstar?


    I WANT suggestions. These are suggestions
    "So with 40 man raiding, being that you already established this is the path you're going to take, have you thought about ways to make people who raid in smaller groups team up with other small groups?" or "I think with the proper guild finder system, people who aren't used to 40 man raids will be able to find guilds and groups, and be able to experience them... thoughts?"

    I don't think "My problem with Carbine's already established for year's mentality on raiding is... it's not what I want. So can we make it what I want?" is a suggestion. I love suggestions... allow me to direct you to a post I made about suggestions in end game. http://wildstar-central.com/index.p...dible-40-man-raid-discussion.2212/#post-42182


    The problem Jar had was that he can't get gear close enough to 40 man raid gear unless he did 40 man raids. Where does this end? Should I get SLIGHTLY less epic epics for doing single player dungeons? I don't like playing MMO's with ANYBODY but myself... so it's unfair to me that there are even raids at all. I should be able to see all content, and I should be able to get the best gear, because I pay $15 a month... so give me all content, and give me all gear, in solo dungeons.

    I don't possess the ability to restrict people from expressing anything. I don't know where I demonstrated I did, but if you do please show me. I could make a lot of money off that. Do I have a problem with people complaining about a game they've never played? Yeah. Do I have a problem with people trying to change something they haven't experienced? Yeah. Do I have a problem with people not understand what Wildstar's CORE PVE IDEALS are, and that THIS GAME is focused on 40 man raids, so they complain that it's not like WoW or LotRo? Yeah. Are all of those problems opinions? Yes. I have the same right to express mine, and that's all I've done.

Share This Page