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Enough dungeons in wildstar?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jdielas, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Malisent

    Malisent Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really like this idea of only having four main dungeons. It means not having to worry about coming up with multiple dungeon gear sets so often throughout the leveling process or DPS struggling to hunt down a tank and a healer — especially months past launch when there are less folks leveling period.

    Since WS is so focused on continuing content at cap, that's where I'd rather spend the majority of my dungeon time and focus on the need for gear and consumables. For leveling I'd rather explore, do PvP, check out the paths, with some dungeons sprinkled in there to give me something to look forward to and keep an eye out on gear for, knowing it is coming at a specific level.
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  2. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Vanilla WoW had around 20 dungeons, so 4 dungeons, even with 6 "adventures" they are proposing, is not going to reach that mark.
  3. Doomhaus

    Doomhaus New Cupcake

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    The thing you guys are forgetting about "Adventures" is that they have multiple paths... So depending on how many paths per Adventure, it will feel / be different depending on what path your group chooses.

    If Adventures are like SWTOR Flashpoints, then I for one am far more excited for them than the average dungeon.
  4. selodaoc

    selodaoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Is that at Endgame or throught the whole leveling process? 6 seems very few if its through the whole game.
    Heck, even FFXIV have a minidungeon every 3-4 levels
  5. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    I too would consider it a tiny bit on the low end 2-4 more would be great, and add to the diversity of playing in the elder game, would also be very intrested if any of the "raid chaning" mechanics will be present in dungeons / adventures (this might change wheater 2-4 more would be needed) (at least from my point of view)
  6. ArcViper

    ArcViper Cupcake

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    I'm glad they're giving some diversity to the elder game content (adventures, expeditions, warplots) instead of trying to pump out ~20 dungeons where you're only going to be running the same few over and over anyways. I'm all for quality of dungeons over quantity, with other meaningful things to do in-between.
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  7. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like the quality over quantity approach here. A few dungeons, which are in turn more difficult and lengthy, rather than the wow mentality of "have two dozen dungeons, and make sure to run 7 of those each week to max your token gain and grind your gear". So it's more about wanting to do one over feeling like you absolutely have to do them, and when you do run them, it's a quality experience.

    Also adventures sound fun, I'm eager to hear more about it. And their plans for leveling time and endgame content etc sound very appealing to me.
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  8. Norewon

    Norewon New Cupcake

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    Can't wait for this Devspeak :) I do like variety while leveling, anything that breaks the grind of questing.
  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    They mentioned in the newest dungeon showing that dungeons will have some variance in how you finish them. This means that you have permutations on each dungeon, not to mention if they can change up the bosses from week to week. Every adventure has multiple paths as well and is supposed to take somewhere around 2-3 hours. So, let's look at it from a replay-ability standpoint. So, let's say around 15 hours of content just from adventures and another 4 for dungeons is 19 hours of content... the first time. We could easily imagine at least 3 paths per adventure, so that's more like 45 hours of content for adventures and, with dungeons having changes on a weekly basis, you probably spend 2-3 hours a week in dungeons before max level.

    The only "real" reason people care about dungeons while levelling is to level faster and get a little bit of a gear boost. But, if it doesn't level you significantly faster, no one's going to be strutting around town as a level 17 saying "Ohhh yeah, look at my full set of gear from the lowbie dungeon." This means in Wildstar it's going to truly just be a choice of if you feel like breaking up your normal gameplay. It also depends on how fast you level, and how important gear is for the levelling experience, and if that gear comes from dungeons, and how hard the dungeons are.

    WoW had 17 dungeons at release (including max level). Once you finished those dungeons you didn't go back to them if you had the gear, unless you needed to attune. Something like 4 of them would be considered max level dungeons, and replayability of those dungeons was strictly for gear, not because the bosses changed, or the trash mobs changed. So, while... yes WoW had more dungeons at release, it's not really the same thing, because as long as players have fun levelling, it doesn't matter if there are levelling dungeons or not (really).
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  10. Mykor

    Mykor Cupcake-About-Town

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    So at max level, we will have:
    - 4 dungeons
    - 6 adventures with multiple paths
    - PVP and warplots
    - Raids
    - Housing
    - I assume some path max level quests
    - Possibly storyline quests at max level (they mentioned a few times that we will find out about Nexus and Eldan during elder game)

    Probably missing a few things but it seems like a nice list that will keep us busy... at least until the first patch with new game content.
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  11. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are basing your point from several assumptions (adventures having 3 paths, dungeons having different bosses each week, people care about dungeons just for leveling), and then expand on those assumptions, while trying to prove your point. Thin ice, mate.

    Also, changing a dungeon on weekly basis doesn't make it any different to last week. It's same dungeon.
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  12. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    My point is, taken out of context, the word "dungeon" means nothing. Also, in contrast, the dungeons in WoW feel kinda... hollow. They're just trash pulls, and beat down the boss when you're levelling. There's never any mechanics you really have to pay attention to until later on. So, yes, I've made some assumptions, but saying that "WoW had 17 and 4 isn't enough" would be the same thing.

    I think replay-ability of dungeons is much more important than the quantity of dungeons. I recall when MoP came out with 9 new dungeons, the majority of them, once I did them once I was bored of them. Thinking to myself "not this one... again" with the exception of Stormstout Brewery, which had 3 variations (or something like that) on the last boss. It really did freshen up the experience, but the rest of them were only fun the first or second time doing them. Yes, eventually Stormstout Brewery became boring as well, but it took much longer.

    So, based on one experience for me, I'd say if the dungeon changes from week to week in a meaningful way mechanically, it will be entertaining for longer. We also don't really have a lot of info about Adventures, other than that they do have paths and they do take a while to complete. If you consider that they take 2-3 times as long to complete as a dungeon, you should also consider them to be equivalent to 2-3 dungeons. We'll average it to 2.5 dungeons per Adventure. In this case, we'll take a group content unit called a "dungeon" and for release, Wildstar will have 2.5*6+4=19. This is 2 more than WoW released with. Are you satisfied now?

    Of course in the beginning dungeons in WoW took longer to complete for the ones at the end, so they're close to equivalent.

    Edit: Also, I'd disagree with your last statement. Changing the dungeon week to week makes it more interesting for a longer period. On the other hand throwing out a ton of dungeons that all have no interesting mechanics just feels like a re-skin of the same dungeon, and the new visuals are only interesting the first time going in. If mechanics change in a meaningful way, and you have multiple paths, and a non-linear dungeon, it means you could have completely different experiences every time you enter the dungeon.
  13. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    One minor amendment to your post. Definitely solo content storyline quests, events, and instances for max level. Other than that, yes that exactly.
  14. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    i would imagine warplots will take a while due to having to buy the componets to the warplots themselves.
  15. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    I've never said that "4 vs around 20 is not enough", read original post that you quoted. Also, thin ice.
  16. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    You said even with the 6 adventures the 4 dungeons is not enough to match up to the 20 that WoW had. But, you're completely taking the content out of context, and ignoring what the specific dungeons were for WoW and what Adventures are in Wildstar.

    Not to mention the speculations I made were not assumptions, they were based on reasoning, and trying to find a "unit" with which to compare WoW dungeons at release with the amount of PVE Group content from Wildstar that they're planning on having at release. Dynamic dungeons do make different experiences which are uniquely interesting and help for replayability. The exact numbers are hard to say, but I'd say what they have planned is give or take the same amount of entertainment value as what WoW had at release in in the current MMO environment, and assuming inflation of player standards.

    Estimation is not the same as assuming. Also, the only assumption in this post is that players have higher standards for content than they did at WoW's release, due to advancement of MMO's and experience in the MMO's they've played.

    Edit: This isn't to say that the content planned is for sure enough content and is equivalent, but it could be depending on how much variation exists.
  17. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Maybe they are twice as large. Will see. If it feels it's not enough and world feels small they won't become WoW killer ;)
  18. Nicodemus

    Nicodemus Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm semi nervous about the amount of dungeons at launch. I'm glad they are loading the development for end game. I just hope there is enough to get most players to that point. And I hope storytelling
  19. Roguehandle

    Roguehandle Cupcake

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    The easy and short answer is no. There will not be enough dungeons but the game will really be born when all can play. Eventually the game will grow with updates. The new born game has to learn how to crawl, walk, and then run. No realistic way a new game would have over 100 dungeons right out the womb..:)
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  20. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Um, no, you are taking my words out of context, and decided for yourself that "4+6 doesn't match 20" means "4+6 is less than 20, therefor it's worse". I'm sorry that my words are too hard to read for you, but try your best and do not insult me by your blindness, when afterwards trying to argue which isn't even there.

    Here is a reasoning for you: using same decorations and claiming that dungeon is "different" because bosses or their abilities are different is a sign of lazy developers that can't do their job properly, and decided to cut costs and delude playerbase by fake depth.

    Here, reasonable assumption for you, based on what they've told and what I've seen. And stop repeating same old story "WoW were different", I saw it and ignore it not because I don't have any counter-argument against them, but because this is another assumption. Maybe it's reasonable, maybe not, who knows? I don't, you don't, there is no point in bringing this assumption up at all. For all I care, I saw same stuff from Stromtalon that you can get from MoP dungeons: 3 bosses, packs of trash, exclusive for each boss mechanics.

    So, unless you have a proof that "adventures" are what you are claiming them to be, you have a proof that different mechanics for each week are not fake depth, and you have a proof that WS dungeons are different to WoW dungeons, stop advocating your assumptions and have patience waiting, instead of jumping gun and throwing around facts you came up yourself.

    P.S. And before you asked: 4 dungeons and 6 adventures, as 17 dungeons Vanilla WoW had, is a fact. First came from previous page, second from wowpedia articale on "dungeons". You can find them, I'm sure of it.

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