Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jdielas, Sep 5, 2013.
no i dont want another brd . dungeons should last like 30mins.
There should atleast be 1 long dungeon for those who like it BRD was just AWESOME! My fondest (hope I write this correctly) dungeon memories are from BRD
Dungeons they've said are going to be more like 45 mins to an hour or so. Adventures will be around 2-3 hrs long.
Shiphands and Expeditions (15mins to 30mins)
Dungeons (45mins to hour)
Adventures (2-3 hrs)
Raids (long time 4-8hrs total once it's on farm?)
I'm with you on this. I would like to see the dungeons/adventures be used in some form of attunements and for the dungeons to be an actual step in progression. My dream would look like this:
Leveling to top level (this gear would be below max level normal gear) --> Max level regular dungeons/adventures
--> 2 max level zones with quest chains for appropriate gear
--> Craftable set using farmable items in world (uncommon items)
--> Battleground PVP set (for Pve)
From there --> Heroic Dungeons (require something like defense cap, I do truly miss this but would like to see something for dps and healers too)
--> Craftable set using rare items
--> Solo quests that are difficult
--> Arena set (for PVE)
Heroic Gear --> 40 mans but are quite difficult
--> 20 man raids (between heroic and 40 man raids, to help the guilds that are having trouble with just heroic gear)
--> Craftable pieces (expensive to make, equal to 20 man gear)
--> WaRplot set (equal to 20 man raids for PVE)
--> Long quest chain that may include difficult ship hands or time to complete
I'm doing this on phone, hope this shows OK.
adventures 2-3 hrs? ouch.
i mean i could invest that amount of time but for some people thats going to be more than they can invest.
So, what I'm thinking is that the first raid is going to be considered the "gate" to raiding. Not that it'll be easy, but with their quick release schedule, I think it's better to challenge the group that's actually going to be going into the actual raid (the whole 40 people) instead of just challenging 5 mans, and then having to re-learn to play as a group once you're in the raid. Also, getting resistance gear isn't really "challenging" as it is just being lucky and/or annoyed.
I do agree that the dungeons need to be challenging, but I don't think there need to be a lot of them. The problem is, we don't know how the release schedule shakes out yet. If they can basically make it that raids release quickly, the first raid will be the equivalent of running 5-10 more dungeons, except it will be one instance, and actually help the group become a group, instead of a bunch of small disjointed groups hoping that everyone's good enough when they actually get to the meat and potatoes. In other words, dungeons are not raiding, they're just a gating mechanism which gives out gear for raiding, they don't help the group in any REAL way, nor do they provide anything really interesting or "epic," once compared to the raid.
What's the point of a 30 min dungeon that you're just going to queue up for another one immediately after exiting it? And with that you usually have a long wait period between them.
meh 30-50 mins i meant to say. i just am thinking of the people who dont have the time to go on hour long + content.
Will you be able to pick off where you left in solo play? Like trash is attached to a raid boss and will no longer spawn once the boss is defeated. If you complete adventures in multiples sessions, then it shouldn't be an issue.
Honestly 30 mins is not long enough to form any sort of actual group dynamics. Also, this gives that sense of "if we wipe once I'm leaving, because I haven't the time for failure." If it's expected you wipe in dungeons and they take an hour+, people will meet those expectations. If they don't have time for an hour worth of gameplay, they'll do something else in the game.
The caveat is that there IS something else for them to do in the game. The other thing is, if they only play an hour a day, they won't be levelling fast anyway, so upon release they don't need a lot of dungeons, because they will barely hit the first dungeon by the time the first month is done. So, its a bit of a moot point if you're looking out for those who simply don't EVER have more than an hour to play every day.
The issues with "we'll fix it after launch" are only a problem if the hardcore players who rip through content could run into the issue of "not enough content." Or not good enough content. On the other hand if there's enough for the hardcore, and they have to put in filler content for the more casual players within the first month, that's fine, because the casuals (by definition) won't have enough time to hit cap by then anyway.
There's other content for them. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. Watering down the game in order to -try- to appease to all (something that will never happen) tends to not pan out.
i do hope adventures you can leave off and pick up again later though. 3hrs straight is quite alot of time even for me and thats saying something.
Yes to all of this except the "heroic dungeon" part. I'm hoping they don't just rehash dungeons to be "heroic" and you simply have to re-run old content at a "harder" level. Instead I hope the dungeons at max level have a heroic feel to them and they have expectations, like doing some of the solo content, crafting or doing adventures to get the gear needed to do them.
I hope it's difficult to do dungeons, like the average player can't complete them, or can after many wipes. I don't think they should be part of the content expected to be cleared at max level basically, but an actual natural gate to raiding. You should have to progress through each one at max level, and therefore be that gate to raiding, but they shouldn't be a "gear based" gate, they should be a skill based gate.
This is why you don't need many dungeons, just enough to prove yourself in, and show that it wasn't simply a fluke that you finished them. While they happen to give you the gear you need by completing them, players won't be forced to repeat them and hope that one piece of gear drops so they actually can step into a raid.
The issue is that they've already confirmed there will be veteran modes for each dungeon/adventures (not shiphands) so I'm trying to get the most of what they're doing. I am with you that I would like the dungeon to feel different and 'heroic' so hopefully they change the dungeon more than harder.
The veteran modes I thought were supposed to be the max level versions of levelling dungeons/adventures. In other words, you have a dungeon at level 20 (or so) and then a similar but harder version of the same dungeon called "veteran mode" at level 50.
This is a bit different than having a dungeon at 20 a normal version at 50 then a heroic version at 50. I'm hoping the veteran modes are the only max level mode of the dungeon and I hope they're a legitimate challenge for raiding, but just so players can show they're ready to be raiding.
If the former is the case we'll see something more like what I described, if it's closer to the latter then it'll be what you described. Of course the latter would be annoying because they'd have rehashed the content twice already and made it just annoying, monotonous, and boring.
I am pretty sure you are going to have to get fully geared in group dungeons or other instanced content before becoming capable of surviving the raids.
Also, Carbine has confirmed in an interview(I forgot who it was with) that you will need to beat 20-man raids before progressing into 40-man raids.
We're speaking of the same thing. Carbine has noted that there is only 1 max level dungeon (nothing asocial adventures as of yet). I wasn't speaking of having all dungeons/adventures at more than one difficulty (my apologies if I implied that). I do agree that they should not make multiple versions of content at a max level.
Carbine has announced that they will have Veteran mode for instanced content which is equivalent to Heroic mode but instead of doing the same exact thing with more difficulty, the Veteran mode will change encounters and provide a more difficult but new experience.
Couldn't agree more! All content in this game will be accessible to everyone. But, that's not to say everyone will (or should IMHO) be able to complete or do the content.
But there are only one set of max level dungeons which are the veteran mode dungeons. There's not a normal+veteran mode at max level + levelling version of the same dungeon. That's what we were speaking about.