1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

"For CASUAL play the medic could heal in any one of those roles..."

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Laura, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Starting at 11:15 on part two of the Medic live stream, the fellas mention that the medic could function as a main tank, aoe, or hybrid healer in CASUAL game play. Does that mean for raids we need to roll a slinger or an esper to better fulfill the aoe or (more likely) main tank healer role?

    I also noticed (as was briefly mentioned on UDSP) that the medic healer was level 30 while everyone else was level 20....and folks were still dying. Is this merely a tuning issue with the size of the heals?

    http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/c/3357188
  2. Whistler

    Whistler Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I believe the sentiment was that, at casual play, any healer could tweak their LAS to fulfill any healing role. At more hardcore progression, certain classes might need to fit certain niches to excel. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how true this all is.
    Livnthedream and Laura like this.
  3. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8

    I guess I kind of assumed that due to the amp and tier system all the healers could be adequate in all the different healer roles...and that the differences between them had more to do with play style. The esper as a more single target focus, the spellslinger with skill shots rather than player targeting, and the medic with a melee ranged action healing style.

    Ah well. I guess raids will be stacking espers as tank healers?
  4. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why would you make that assumption when they have repeatedly said that each healer matches up with a tank? They have said it in regards to each healer in each livestream.
  5. Kidney

    Kidney Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    While I do agree that "favored" MT/OT/Raid healers will happen as a result of rampant min/maxing, I certainly hope that I never take part in another fight where stacking stationary raid members for longer than ~15 seconds is part of the strat.

    Look at the bosses shown from Stormtalon's Lair. None of them have a phase where the DPS would ever just sit stacked on each other, not for long. And if they were staying on top of each other it's because they were moving and reacting to the same new positions or targets.

    Why would you expect healers to ever have a chance to stand still in a boss fight? Madness. There's a boss fighting you.
  6. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8

    That's why I was thrown by the comment that they could fulfill all these different roles in "casual" play. Is the medic then unable to fulfill one of these roles (tank healer, aoe, hybrid) in raids? They didn't parse their statement in terms of heals by class...but by role. Hence the question. :)

    Perhaps it was just a slip of the tongue.
  7. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8


    :) I didn't mean standing still...I meant having a lot of one type of healer.
  8. Kidney

    Kidney Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I also realize you maybe just meant "stack" in a general sense, like all raids will be bring X# espers for dedicated MT heal role slots. Which could happen... I suppose. But would make me sad in a different way. Sorry if that's what you meant.
  9. Kidney

    Kidney Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yah >< I'm a bit out of it, sorry about that Laura.
  10. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8

    No worries!
  11. Kidney

    Kidney Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    To bring some sense of discussion back to this madness :

    I agree with your interpretations above. I think that it was a slip of the tongue, and all heal classes and playstyles will be viable up to a point. At the point, there will be min/maxing; but hopefully it's not where you need 8 espers, 1 spellslinger (for buff), 1 medic (for buff) and that's your raid heals comp always. I very much doubt this will happen.
    Laura likes this.
  12. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It came off to me that each healer is going to be able to specialize in a way of play. Ie Medics can main tank heal, but really only when paired with their tank, otherwise they will lack the tools for anything other than their planned role. In the case of Medics that would appear to be support heals.

    Even if that is the case, so what? The more "hardcore" the content is the more preparation is going to be in play anyhow. Its only really in pugs and the like that everyone really needs to be able to fill all roles. Besides, Caydiem has said that they plan on having a player have to off heal in 5 mans and the like.
  13. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I've been torn over my class choice which is probably why this has been on my mind.

    As for the needing an offheals in 5 mans, that's cool new information for me! I'll have to go search up that Caydiem post now :p.
  14. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was made in irc, not a post on the boards.
  15. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ahh...gotcha. Thanks.
  16. Tidezen

    Tidezen Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I like that too, the idea of "support heals" being a necessity in certain 5-man encounters. That's one of the things Rift tried to do by incorporating a "support" role, although frankly it's hard to get players to accept it, them being caught in the "1 tank, 1 heals, 3 dps" paradigm no matter what. I don't mind the trinity, I just want to see more flexibility in it. My favorite moments are when something goes wrong, you lost a tank or a healer, and the rest of the group is forced to improvise. I want it so they can improvise like that, that it's not just a straight wipe every time.

    As for the healer classes excelling in certain roles and not being as good in others, yeah, that'll happen to a degree no matter how they balance it (short of giving everyone the exact same abilities). The trick is just to balance it such that there's at least one good niche for all the healer classes, so nobody's getting totally excluded.

    That balance issue shows for the other roles too though. Stalker tanks may suffer in places where boss positioning is really important, where they can't move too much, but they might be better on bosses where there's a lot of "GTFO of the way or this move will 1-shot you" mechanics. Same with DPS, with some classes being more motion friendly, or say a really melee unfriendly fight where people stack ranged classes. But hey, that's just a part of most MMO's, I don't think it's anything to be too concerned about. :)
    Laura and Kidney like this.
  17. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Pac North Wet
    The level 30 could be a indicator glitch as well, because as far as I know Dungeons are supposed to level down all players to the Dungeon level.

    The only death I saw was the Stalker on an add, and in my opinion the player is a mediocre W* gamer. If you watch their gameplay in both the 2v2 PvP and in the Dungeon you will see that they have trouble getting out of the Red, and Stun Breakout seems to be a foreign concept to them.
    Go back and watch the Stalker’s death (starts about 21:18 of part 2); you will see that they are at about half health from the previous encounter, stunned while standing in what looks like 2 red circles back to back, and it looks like they take the full 5sec stun. You can see that the Medic has them selected, but all of the big heals are on cooldown from the previous fight (Lots of not available messages as well.), and the Medic is hitting the Stalker with their smaller heals. I don’t think any of the 3 could have saved the Stalker under these conditions, and I don’t think their supposed to be able to.

    W* is a Tactical Action game, and part of the Tactics is getting out of the Red, and using Breakout, and this is also part of the Action. I think if you’re competent at this and character setup, you could probably play any Class in any content and I think this is what Mark meant with this statement; “It’s the beauty of AMPS and Tiers, what abilities you take, how your gear is. You can really kind of build however you want. You can go full main tank healer, DPS healer, AOE healing,group support, hybrid.”, just prior to Hugh's statement. Of course this is total conjecture on my part.
  18. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I don't know if he was leveled down...he's got a lot more health than the other folks in there. Maybe they level down the spells but not the health stats?

    Good points about the heals not being available...I was quick surfing through looking specifically to see the health and level discrepancy after a comment on Gamebreaker's UDSP show.

    I did catch Mark's statement too...it just seemed Hugh was trying to qualify the statement.

    It'll be really interesting to hear what folks say once open beta starts....but in the meantime, conjecture is certainly fun!
  19. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Pac North Wet
    In CoHV part of the downleveling process was adjusting health and damage output, and I figure it would be the same here, but the downleveled player is still going to have more HP and damage output than a non downleveled player. Also in CoHV they had it to where you could use your abilities that were within 5 levels of your downleveled level.
    This being said I could not find where you could see the other players HPs.

    From my observation Mark seems to be a pretty good W* gamer (He was doing everything he could to save the Stalker.); Hugh might have been qualifying Marks statement because Marks competency might have been biasing his opinion. Of course this is also conjecture :D.
  20. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    114
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I knew the second I heard Hugh Shelton say this that it'd be popping up all over. I think anyone that really is honest about it we all know that no matter how hard they try to make all builds viable there will always be a min/max cookie cutter best build for output, efficiency, etc when pushing any kind of high end hard mode content. It always has been that way.

    Yes their goal is to make a game where you can "play the way you want to play". But they are also realistic and they know that no matter how much they go over and over and over balance that there will always be those in the community that will calculate every ability to the 1,000,000 degree with their spreadsheets and all that jazz and will post in forums like this about it.

    Sure your favorite build may be perfectly viable and it's what you enjoy. Then go ahead and play it. If you're in a super hardcore progression guild and are asked to use cookie cutter build version 1.12 then don't be surprised. We all know this is just the way it is.

    I'm personally glad to see them at least just come out and say it without trying to lie to us like somehow this will be the first game ever where every class has 1,000 perfectly viable and equally balanced builds. It's just never worked out that way in any game.

Share This Page