Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by ObliviousPrime, Jul 6, 2012.
Gamebreaker Takes A Deeper Look At The Holy Trinity <-- link to the video and article.
I can see both sides. I like the trinity to a point. EQ did it better having multiple roles to fill in a group, as was mentioned in the article. What it comes down to is that people are tired of having to find different roles to fill in the group and spamming "Healer for dungeon XXX! ST". I have a different solution that would take more development time.
Why not change the content of raids/dungeons to the content of the group? Cater the encounters based on if you have 5 tanks or 3 tanks/1 healer/1 DPS or 5 healers, etc. That way, it doesn't matter what you have, you get the experience of the dungeon with different tactics needed based on the group makeup. This not only allows any group to do an encounter, it lets you get to experience different tactics based on your group. That way, people get to play the style they like and still get to experience the content without having to wait for certain roles.
I can't even imagine the difficulty in programming and balancing that would be. And for the "elites" of WildStar, they would find the most efficient way of running a dungeon and then spam LFG chat saying "Need 3 Healers for [insert dungeon here].. no other classes apply..."
It's an interesting theory though.
I agree with Jar. It's a nice idea, but I really have no idea how they could even impliment it.
There is a 'Law' that: Anything you do to make it easier for low skill or low level players, will always benefit high skilled or high levelled players more.
I knew it was a difficult theory when I posted it. I have no idea how long it would take to even accomplish something like that, I just thought if they wanted a challenge and wanted to go outside the box this is one way to do it. As far running it efficiently, that is true no matter what the scenario is and if they want to wait for a certain makeup, that is their prerogative. This setup would prevent them having to wait for certain skill sets but they still have the option to wait if they want.
I would really like to see a different mechanic in group encounters for what will cause a wipe. It would take more balance to allow for some difficulty but I just hate that if the healers go, or the tank goes it is usually done, but you can usually lose a few dps....unless you are just barely making the cap. I would love to see some sort of oh <REDACTED> the tank went down if everyone scrambles we can get him back up no problem, or have a way for dps to switch to tanking as a backup.
In short I just don't like the all the weight on one persons shoulders feel that raid bosses and main tanking can bring. If it is a group fight it would be nice to see a better spread of death possibilities. maybe make a way for the dps to take more responsibility for wiping and lower the amount for the tank. Like a if you shoot them at this time we all die sort of thing, and sometimes the dps has to shoot the tank or....well obviously I don't have the answer but I think this is the greatest weakness of the trinity. it makes some classes ..not less important, but seem to be less important on how they cause a wipe.
Hopefully they come up with a genius way to balance that out.
but but but wipes are the dps fault:
1. they fail to avoid dmg
2. healers can not keep all the fumbling dps and the tank up at the same time
3. dps dies
4. encounter takes much longer
5. healers mana goes dry
6. tank goes terminal
yup, 99% of all wipes are dps fault
the last 1% is when I don't have a leash on my pet...
As a DPS I will say that some DPS do mess it up. I messed up sometimes on raids, and we all make mistakes. However I would not say that all wipes are the DPS's fault sometimes the tank is not holding the agro or not generating enough threat and the boss turns on the DPS, or the healer was not up to par.
I am trying not to put all the blame on the healer because I saw some realy amazing healers and they do not get enough praise IMO. In a wipe healers get most of the blame from what I have seen.
The last line in the post was to show I was messing around, I have never wiped a raid in my life on being forgetful. I have underperformed forgetting my fishing pole in WoW a couple of times
I have seen a pet class do it as I described though, more than once
However, I have also seen healers gets blamed for not being able to keep the raid up, when dps/tank failed to work together about agro management (I know, some consider agro management 100% the tanks job) or failed to avoid taking unneeded damage -- some unavoidable damage is part of the mechanic, but avoiding the avoidable burst dmg type is part of the players challenge in their performance, as is the healers making up for the not so situationally aware in all roles.
I have seen the "oops, I forgot my own health" too
I have also seen healers being able to work past such conditions and make a guild shine, despite the encounter times being longer than other guilds usually did it, because dps had a significant less output than what other guilds showed for the same encounters.
When it comes down to it, it is all about chemistry class, some components can make unexpected results, when they are in the right mix.
"Oops I forgot my own health." is more common than you think. I do it all the time. You can get so focuesed on keeping the tank and DPS up, that you forget to top up your own health. Luckily in raids a lot of the times each healer is keeping an eye on every other healers health so the cross heals keep them all up.
Staying out of the fire is easy, but the 'spam shadowbolts on the entire raid' spells aren't so visible...
Yeah, as a disc priest during WotLK I rotated with shield/mending/flash heal/renew between tank, healers and the dps I knew had tendency to take more dmg on specific fights and using whatever heal I had up - mostly penance - to prevent more damage and get up those who took a lot of burst dmg. I let the other healers take care of healing big chunks of damage up, since their heals were "smarter" in some cases and the throughput on their direct heals had more "oohmp". My mission was to make sure people took less damage over time and flatten out burst dmg taken, so we'd loose less people on the encounters total. I loved being a raid healer. I miss it sometimes
The only heal we've seen so far in WildStar is that cool looking 'plant flag' ability which I assume is a AoE more like "Group Heal" (I don't play a Priest so I dunno what it's called) than Healing Rains. Do you think that's the ESPer's only 'heal'? Combined with the 'Valkyrie Armour' looking ability I can see them being more like WotLK Discipline Priests, concentrating more on damage mitigation than proper healing like my Restoration Shaman. (Or Ejii Modo Shaman as it should be called, heh heh)
I would be sorely dissappointed if WildStar did not cover every type/category of heal/absorp in WoW/Rift and adding a couple of extras innovative combo ones. The question is how we will be able to combine them in our chosen class. Id love to test that /hint
The globes in Diablo made me think of a dps lich version of self heal, that enables one or more classes with the ability to soak up the blood of their enemies, before it dissolves into the ground. Maybe a class could have a debuff on the enemy, that makes the blood stay longer or spring more often to play with the usefullness. That could be a fun mechanic to come up with for pseudo-heals.
The planting the flag is one of the coolest heal animation I have seen.
I don't agree that the Trinity is a natural inclination of games. Even a smart player, as DPS, can do more than keyboard mash. It's the mindset rather than the system and "The Trinity" is condensing it so the mainstream can understand it.
Can a DPS split tank? Can a healer control between heals? Can a tank burst down a mob?
The problem is when people are asked they like playing and the response is, "DPS, Healer, or Tank" when it should be, "Warrior, Paladin, Rogue, etc." The more individuality the classes have the less likely they will be boiled down to doing 3 jobs the exact same way.
In World of Warcraft the healing side of things -was/is- diverse. The Restoration Shaman is the most efficient at healing whole groups, The Discipline Priest is damage mitigation, Restoration Druid is all about piling healing over time on everything, Holy Paladin is all about keeping that one guy up and the Holy Priest is a jack of all trades.
Each has a completely different playstyle. All do similar or the same thing, filling up and keeping full those little green health bars, but they all do it vastly differently to each other. Bar the Holy Priest, since he can do everything, just not as well.