Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by kredes, Aug 5, 2013.
SSSssssttttt That's suppose to be a secret!
Woops, oh well. tis out now doesn't that suck, I almost felt sorry for you, then remembered you are just a dominion.
The problem is that those dungeons are all not that hard. I don't remember last time any group I played with didn't finish a dungeon. Oh, I remember, it last happened in vanilla WoW If W* dungeons can be rolfaced then they'd better not drop more than one blue per run. Also with crafting and moding why wouldn't players just create their own items. Giving them blues easily will let them forget about moding.
Judging by the low/mid level dungeon content in the rezzed video, it looks like dungeons in WildAsterisk are going to be no joke. If you actually made all of those telegraphs that end boss did actually punishing, then it would appear that players will often wipe and not complete dungeons and just give up. Carbine has mentioned that it's not going to be just que up for a loot pinata, and instead the players will actually have to work together, coordinate, and be good to get through it. I believe there was also mention of a system which rewards your efforts based on how far/fast you completed the dungeon, so, this means players who can't complete the dungeon still get something but it's not the same as those who masterfully finished it.
I wish we can mod grey item to make it as good as blue
What's the point? Even if you could theoretically take a grey item and put red chips in it to make it as powerful as a blue, you would still hold out with your red chips until you got a suitable item for them (either orange or red). Think about WoW (and any other game really with consumable mods on items), you didn't gem/enchant items with the best gems/enchants until you were relatively certain they wouldn't be replaced quickly. (Unless you had no more time to find loot before raid night that week and did it to keep your edge.)
But they need to worry about all those players who don't know how to mod and craft so I suppose if you know how you will still rolface through dungeons. And after first gameplay most of us will rolface through them with alts.
This system will only make it more boring for those who actually knows how to play the game. Basically if I do dungeon well I will get more blues and next dungeon will be even more easy for me given my skill and bunch of blues I got from the last one. At the same time Tomy who hardly finished first dungeon and got only greens will have hard enjoyable time finishing the next one. I'm not sure who is more lucky as it looks that good players will have nothing but raids to enjoy (more or less and I'm quite pessimistic here).
Maybe they could make grey items so fragile that taking chips out of them wouldn't break them. Problem solved
Well, there in lies the progression thing. I think there should be a range of dungeon difficulties which you generally progress through, just like you would with raiding. You start out with 2 or 3 "easy" dungeons (which players who are well coordinated will not have much trouble on and only wipe once or twice) which you need to attain gear from that's blue/green, which allow you to move onto the next dungeon which again you get blue/greens from this dungeon, and you end up with a full set of blue and green dungeon gear at this point, which leads you into the last tier which eventually gets you a full set of blue gear.
That way uncoordinated groups eventually get through it through organic gear-based "nerfs" and more coordinated players generally fly through it (because let's face it, if you have a coordinated group you want to go through dungeons relatively fast). At the same time, no group should realistically be able to get through the second set of dungeons without first completing the first set.
I just hope that the feeling of progression will not disappear from old content dungeons when expansion is out which happened in WoW case.
I mean the only way that would be fun really is if you were actually "lucky" to get a grey item, and most people were just walking around with half a full set of gear. I'm not entirely against that, but really that's the only reason you'd ever want to chip out a grey item.
Maybe crafters could make toys out of greys. Or weather balloons. Or toilet paper. I bet there will be some col way of using them as otherwise they won't be fun and fun is kind and this brings me to... for what <REDACTED> they've removed fishing and kept greys in game!
It kinda has to, unless you're expected to do the dungeons (or end-game pvp, or end-game solo content) to do the new expansion's content (which isn't a terrible idea, except for with alts). One issue of course with this is that when new expansions come out, they usually integrate a lot of new systems and change up old abilities and systems to be better balanced or more innovative or more "fun," and these changes will break old content. The only real way around this is to never increase the max level.
Another issue with this is that players often like to try other characters, and an expansion is an easy/logical point to start a new character, as they don't have to worry about being behind the gearing curve to get back to where they were in progression.
So... I'm not really sure how I feel about that. If there was a legacy system for alts to bypass having to re-gear through the old content just so a player could swap over, it's do-able, if not... I think there's less merit to the system. I mean I'd agree I think new players should have to do the old content in one form or another before moving onto the newer content, as it makes sense. It's still content they haven't seen. Possibly not make them go through the whole raiding thing, because raid grouping for an old expansion may be hard to find/not well upkept, but dungeons and solo content sure.
The solution of a static max level would work as well, and simply adding a new "ability" system in the new expansion that allows players to "level" into new abilities without allowing more stats from those levels should cause no issues. The new expansion could have increased gear power with it as well which is considered your "progression." It would be awkward to work out the specifics, but a system like that could work in theory.
Oh yah, that'd be cool, if they could make other things out of them, I just don't think it'd be necessary to keep them as "items." The other option is to make items "stateless" and instead have the chips give it the "color" variance. The other option of course is that grey items can contain any "color" chip, so they are still useful, and are instead salvaged for their chips. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you just want grey's to be useful in some way, and not just something you vendor.
Yeah, greys always end-up being thrown away in junk rage. Whites go to vendor or are used. I think that in this game good use for greys would settlers created buildings which can be made of junk metal. But whatever as far as we can do something with the stuff beside throwing it away. And it'd better be fun cause of fishing...
Edit: They were removing and adding fishing so many times that I don't know where did it stop and if we are actually going to have it in game or not.
Holy <REDACTED> I just came up with an awesome idea for grey's! So, you make a minigame out of trashing them. You have to build a pile of grey's which is "balanced" in some way, and when it topples over you get rewarded with an item of higher quality based on the height you were able to make the grey pile. It'd be like Jenga, but instead you're just piling greys on and attempting to get it as tall as possible. Items would be "vaguely" different and have different centers of gravity to make it more interesting. For players that just want to quickly get rid of stuff they'll get a couple copper for trashing their items, but for those who wanna try to get the most out of their greys they'll save them up and try to make the pile as high as possible.
We would have to play this game more than wildstar itself with the amount of greys which may drop from mobs. But I'd like to see some mob groups playing your Jenga game with their greys
I mean it allows players to have a chance at some awesome items and "fuse" greys together to get some real rewards if they try hard enough, but at the same time if people just want to clear out some bag space, they can also do that. I think the important part about it is that the players would be able to access it anywhere (even if it had something like a 30 min cooldown).
I'd only play it if we could teleport our greys to house from anywhere and then go and play that game later with as many greys we want. So if I have 1000 greys after a day of playing I would like to be able to play the Junga game once with all 1k greys and not have to play it 10+ times. So basically it should work like a casino, I can bet a lot of greys and either win big or loose all This would make it more exciting and allow me not to play that minigame many times if I don't feel like playing it much. (Edit: I'm not a huge fun of games in games.)
First of all, I didn't say that it should be scrapped because it adds flavour, only that only thing it contributes is flavour, nothing more, and thus can be safely scrapped when necessary.
Secondly, there is flavour and Flavour. Some things are big, like I seem to remember them once mentioning NPC AI that would allow them to emulate 'normal life' based only on algorythms, and that is big flavour thing. Seeing 'white' items in game is extremely small flavour. Shopkeepers stock up on mass produced items, and in some games those are whites, but in WS it might as well be greens. You never even saw whites, they do not exist on Nexus, green is new white, not much flavour lost. As for greys/damaged, they can just as well be unusable regular trash items, as weapons like magic guns most likely become unusable at all once damaged too much.
As long as shopkeepers can have overpriced greens, 2 extra colors of gear without any use outside of flavour are not needed, and by removing them they can reduce confusion with color system(believe me, I've seen plenty of people that couldn't comprehend purpose of whites on vendors), and allows them to add 2 more colors for elder game, without turning it into 'all colors you can think of', and without need to provide 7 (or more) different power levels for each item level for each quality.
I don't mind grey and white quality of weapons, but if Carbine decides to remove those 2 colors - I can see some benefits of this.
Also, I never said anything about 'regular' items quality, potions, materials, food, trash, etc. Gray for trash should stay, trash weapons also should stay, but don't have to be usable. Green being base quality for everything else might be weird, maybe white should stay for 'everyday' items, don't have to think about it, not my decision to make.
It does not have to be 'hard work with proper group' hard.
Greens are candies - you walk out and find them everywhere, just laying around.
Blues are apples - sometimes you encounter tree with them, and either have to exercise some more effort to get them, alone, or to find group and get them easly.
Porples are cakes - you learn recipie, gather ingredients, try to bake it, and after few hours you either succeed or not.
Higher qualities are cakes that you bake in flames of Mount of Doom or something.
Stupid example aside, point is: blue is supposed to be higher tier of effort than green, but below purple. We can't tell how it's balanced here, in WS, but usually greens are everywhere. Most of quests give you one, after hour of killing mobs your bags have plenty of them, given away like candies.
On the other hand, blues are supposed to take some effort, but there is no single definition on how much more. In some cases, it's reward for normal quest, but one that requires you to also do 15 specific quests before. Sometimes, it's for quest that has enemies that have much higher chance to kill you. Often, it's given for group activities, simply to encourage grouping. But I never seen MMO before where obtaining blues would require extra skill from average group. Extra skill from single player yes, but those are usually designated as group activities. So I consider blues proper reward for content that required averagely skilled group of specific size, and some time. For activities that have real chance of failure even with skilled players, there are purples. In case dungeons can be rotflstomped by 2 average people and 3 warm bodies, then what should be adjusted it their difficulty, not rewards.
Also - if loot tables are similar to early WoW, dungeons giving out blues freely won't be a problem, simply because that one class can get those 2 upgrades in this dungeon, and that's it, other upgrades if he wants will have to come from other cources. And for moding - they reported that people that do not mod are far below expected performance, so it'll probably be required anyway, blues or not.