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Global Cooldown

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Leiloni, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its different then a gcd because it goes off even on a 5sec cast time spell. Where as with a gcd, after a 5sec cast time spell you would immediately be able to cast again.

    e.g A .5 sec cast time goes up to 1 and a 5 sec cast time goes up to 5.5

    If you read the end of my post, i say that i think a gcd system is the best for wildstar. I was just showing an example of a game that has no gcd, and avoids problems people were talking about. Its just not possible to do no gcd with only 10 skills and have it feel good.
  2. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm not too bothered either, as long as they are short. I know they are used to balance things a bit between a player with low latency, and other players with high latency. I mean, with no GCD, a player with 100ms ping would be able to cast 10 abilities in 1 second, over a player with 200ms casting 5 abilities (broad example, I know, but you get the idea).

    So I think it is necessary, but should be short.
  3. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    First if you’re going to complain about something from a video, then how about linking that video, or showing it like this.



    So I can look at it and get an idea of what your fricken complaint is.
    So anyways I look at this video and I don’t see a massive ugly global cooldown indicator (I don’t play SWTOR so I figured this was something in the middle of my screen.). I finaly looked down at the buttons and see a standard UI GCD; in fact as I watch I see at least three GCDs; One for the dodge, one for the three abilities on the left, and one for the two abilities on the right. It looks like there is a slower attack GCD, and a very quick utilities GCD.

    I hate a GCD that locks down all of my abilities, but W* does not do that. The attack GCD seems slow, but I would not be surprised if there are not microchips that reduce this GCD.
  4. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Here's the video:


    Most of his skills are instant and have no CD except for a few and he just stands there spamming them. They are only limited by the global cooldown. There are no individual cooldowns and no interesting animations to pace the flow of combat, make it look nicer, and add an element of skill to it. Then there's the GCD indicator on the UI which is just hideous. The entire system is uncreative, outdated, clunky, and boring.

    Compare it to something like this:


    Where all of his skills except for his auto attack have an individual cooldown (even his evasive roll has a cd!). Each skill is governed by a unique and interesting animation which serves as a cast - so if any of those animations are interrupted, his skill does not even go off. The animations also serve to control the flow of combat similar to a GCD. No ugly UI indicator and combat is much more interesting and has a much better flow because the animations link the skills together in a very even flowing manner.

    Not to mention, skill choice and rotation become more complex when a)you are continuously interrupting your own skills to dodge or move out of the way, b) each skill has a separate CD, meaning you can't use any one skill back to back to back like in the above Wildstar video, and c)hitting a skill means that for the duration of the animation, you are locked in place so you better hope you made the right choice and didn't use a skill when the monster is about to hit you, adding in an element of skill to combat (i.e. the poorly timed dodge a second too late at the 30 second mark means he got hit and knocked down when the boss decided to move. It also puts the skill he tried to use on CD, so he's SoL until it's back off CD).

    The system used in TERA (and various other games) keeps the pacing of combat that the GCD tries to do, but adds in so many more benefits. Combat and abilities are more complex when you have to take into account individual cooldowns and animations that serve as cast times, and it looks much prettier as well as having a much smoother flow when animations are truly what dictates the flow of combat instead of an artificial UI element. Also keeping in mind that this player has various attack speed stats on his gear (he's a friend and I think he has 21.5% attack speed last time I checked) so a lower level player, or a lesser geared player, will have longer animations, slower paced combat, and will have to adjust accordingly.

    The GCD system and this animation/individual CD system solve the same problem, it's just that the second system does it much better.
    wormed, Naunet and Outlaw like this.
  5. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think we learned with GW2 and TSW that having such a limited set of abilities makes combat boring and very limited. You can increase the amount of class skills without putting a strain on people's ability to keybind, and without getting crazy out of control with the amount of skills you have like WoW did (and you can do it with the CD/animation system I mention above).

    Since this discussion is still going on and I don't think anyone has bothered to read my reply on Reddit, I'll just copy/paste:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/1cjz05/tanking_in_wildstar_or_why_the_7_button_mechanic/

  6. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not going to say you are wrong, but did WoW actually have all that abundance of abilities? Because I remember it like this - you have a core skillset to maintain rotation (10 skills max), some utility to buff/debuff (incl. trinkets), and very rare to use skills like cc or long cd things, that were used once per encounter and then forgotten about (innervate, battleres etc.).

    Well, every character had TONS of abilities to use, that is right. But were all of them that useful? Or did they make it really hard in MoP, because I'm avoiding this game since very early Cata.
  7. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are right, there is no cd at all. Btw, what's that green thing atop of his skillbar? There were different thing in warrior video (more like red or orange orbs, three of them). What do you think they do?
  8. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    That's suit power for the stalker and the orbs for the warrior are kinetic cells, basically the unique resource to each class.
    AnotherJaggens likes this.
  9. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh, I see. Thank you.
    Is there any good read to learn mroe about those suit power and kinetic cells? Not like a complete guide, but at least a general purpose and usage. Like a design document without any specifics. I saw those mentioned in leaked patch notes, but without any context it just confuses.

    EDIT: NOT official info. It just states that warriors have kinetic cells and use them to do stuff. This explains... nothing.
  10. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    There is not much information I'm afraid, few bits scattered here and there, Suit Power seems to be like energy for rogues in WoW whereas Kinetic cells would be akin to Monks chi in WoW.
  11. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Found a bit about warriors hereI have no idea of what monks do, so it's easier for me to relate it to warriors from WoW: you hit stuff or get hit yourself - you get rage kinetic cells, which in turn you spend on useful stuff instead of fillers. Depending on what useful stuff you carry around - you are an amazing tank or fabulous dps (well, that's what I think).

    Nothing specific on stalkers tho. I'm curious about a wheel or what's that in a middle of everything. There is 1 power to right of it, and 1 power to left, and that wheel. Suit power regenerates by itself. In TB video on stalker there are cooldowns on skills using power. Oh, ok, that wheel in middle have 100 something, and those are drained while you are in stealth. Now that could get awkward for pvp. False, in m30 there is a line about that. Also interesting to note that m30 are all about skills (offensive) using that wheel power, so either those two green things are like tokens (need 1 and x suit power to use advanced ability), or they are deprecated and it's only a wheel now.

    Okay, thanks again, I understand how those things work now.
    damn, that was a long off-topic. sorry
  12. Shaigh

    Shaigh Cupcake

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    From what I gathered so far wildstar has a universal GCD, ranged has some form of animation rooting (massively testing spellslinger), melee lacks animation rooting.

    As for my own opinion, I prefer gcd depending on the ability used, and some rooting (like in tera) and loved playing the priest there. I wouldn't call it harder though, only different.

    The UI complaint is silly though, its just a cue that you can use the next ability and you can change it with addons if it annoys you too much.
  13. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't know about other classes, but discipline priests have a metric <REDACTED> ton of short-cooldown utility buttons that you have to manage constantly throughout an encounter.

    Excellent post.

    All this talk about GCD and what WS does or doesn't have... It's really bringing down my excitement for the game, at least in terms of combat. I really wish either TERA's combat wasn't so amazing or that TERA hadn't ruined itself with cash shop-F2P. x.x
  14. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually there was a bit in m30 stating that several abilities "Now uses the proper Stalker GCD of 1 second.". So it is possible that different classes have different GCD - you can pick one that has it low if it matters THAT much for you.
  15. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are honestly comparing a pre-beta level 6 demo to a level 60 gamers video from a game released in 2011.

    I’ve already mentioned that I saw three GCDs in the video that I watched, and there are three in this video.
    As for the ugly UI; if you’re talking about the messages in the middle of the screen, I would be very surprised if I could not turn it off.

    Again this is a pre-beta level 6 demo we’re talking about.
  16. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    The level is irrelevant because all I'm illustrating is the difference between a GCD system and a system like what TERA has. If you have an actual argument for why TERA's system is not better I'd love to hear it.

    Here, low level gameplay from Closed Beta 1 over a year ago. Same <REDACTED>, different day. He still has no global cooldown - he instead has an animation for each skill that controls the pace and flow of combat. Each skill has an individual cooldown except for his auto attack. And at such a low level he has barely any skills and no gear at all. Hop in at about the 8 or 9 minute mark to see him at level 5-6. He hits level 8 later and has a few more skills. Also he's fighting regular mobs here and not mini bosses like the previous video.

  17. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lol awww, that was not the intention. TERA's combat was great, the best I've played in any game so far. But the game was lacking in a lot of other areas which is why I've stopped playing. Wildstar is looking very promising, I just am hoping they can make the combat perfect which is why I'm posting. The GCD and 7 class abilities are my big concerns. I dunno if they can or will change any of it but it can't hurt to post my thoughts at least. :)
  18. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

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    The over simplification of games will be the death of it. WoW retains its success due to it being the "original" creator of convenience. There are no MMORPG's anymore that have the same features and succeed. I'm shocked developers don't understand that.
  19. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    You’re complaining about the mechanics of a game from a pre-beta domo that you did not play, but watched on a video. A game that the player did not have the option of optimizing, because not only is it pre-beta, it’s a fricken gaming convention demo.
    I have no interest in telling you which system is better, and I couldn’t even if I wanted to, because I have not played either; and neither can you because you’ve also have not played both of them, making your opinion no more valid than mine.

    I can tell you that while watching this TERA video, I noticed that he had one chained attack that activated two abilities, and that most of the time he was auto attacking. W* does not have an auto attack, and at the time of the video it has no chained attacks. If you don’t press a button nothing happens, yet the only time I saw a sparsity of action in the W* videos is when they stopped to explain various things.
    What I can tell you is that every video of TERA’s combat I’ve seen I’ve found boring; nothing in them has generated an interest in me to check it out. I cannot say the same about W*.

    If you don’t find the combat to W* to your liking there is a simple solution to your problem; the same solution that I will take in regards to TERA (Of course TERA has been released for quite a while, so I don’t have to wonder what it might be, when it gets out of beta.).
  20. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    There's no such thing as auto-attack in TERA. There is a basic attack that, for slayers (and other melee classes), generates mana and is the ability (plus block or evasive roll) that you start out the game with. Chained attacks also only go off if you press a button to activate it. Spacebar is the default keybind, so as a warrior you could hit Pounce, which chains into Traverse Cut (that particular chain increases the speed and number of hits in Traverse Cut), but TC won't go off until you hit spacebar to activated it. It's on you whether you feel like there's enough time to get through a particular ability chain or if you have to stop it prematurely to dodge out of the way or block.

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