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Hardmodes and you

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by JarNod, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Not really, that is what I defined as casual progressive on the casual vs progressive discussion. It is what I am myself, it is hard giving up habits of improving everytime I log on, when it has been such a big part of my gaming life. We are not unlike, you and I, when it comes to raiding.

    We just disagree on how accessible content should be for the not hardcore progressive :p
  2. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Casual Progressive here as well:up:
  3. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    You make a split between LFR/Normal and Heroic/Hardcore. I even want to go as far to even get rid of that. We both seem to agree that dynamic content is a great addition to a raid or even a dungeon. Hell, you can even extend this to a questline.

    What I want to see is a instance where dynamic content determines how hard your run will be. For example: if you kill the first 3 bosses within a time limit an extra boss spawns who's tougher and harder to kill. Drops better loot too. Or you kill a boss without someone dying, you get an extra chest or something with a reward in it. If I think about this concept more and more I see unlimited possibilities with this.

    If a raid group isn't able to kill those bosses in time they miss out on that extra harder boss and the better loot. If a raid group is able to kill those bosses in time, they get an extra harder challenge and the loot. I think you get the idea.

    Later on, when a new raid has been released (but only after that), you can make the time limit easier etc etc. This opens the extra content for the more casual players.
  4. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I did say, I want the heroic removed. Instead make the normal able to include the dynamic elements to make it hard, which we both speak of:

    LFR is then a watered down version of the normal, since it does not have the dynamic content. Not very special, but good for getting beyond group progression for those like me with no viable guild options -- or recruits who is not going to be accepted, before they exhausted all other options of gearing up by themselves, some guild has the luxery of requiring that.

    And there is where we disagree. Easy mode (the raid buffing) should not in my opinion be implemented, when the content is not current anymore, since there is absolutely nada reason to do it that late. Many need the buff to progress all the way up to 30% before they get it right.

    Hardcore guilds already has gotten their server first, seconds and thirds before the buff goes in at all.

    If the achievements fully illustrate wether something is done with or without buff and what level of buff, then almost hardcore guilds can still get their no-buff server progression in on wowprogress just by removing the buff.

    If the tools to show completing the full monty is there, if they really are progression guilds, they will use it. Otherwise they deserve to be stuck with the buff version of the achievement, because they didn't try hard enough, but took the easy way.
  5. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Actualy, I think, I get one thing you say about the buff.

    If one want to enter the dynamic content, one has to do normal without the buff - in my way remove the buff manually if it is in effect, in your way the buff will not be an issue. Then maybe open the dynamic content to the buff at the same time a new raid launches.

    OK, I can compromise with only being able to enter dynamic content with the buff when a new raid launches, if you can compromise on accepting the buff can be present (and removed manually) during current normal content. So during current content, the requirement for popping the dynamic content includes not being under the buff, ergo removing it manually.

    Edit, making compromising as if we have anything to say at all is hilarious, right :p
  6. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Ow, we don't disagree on this at all. In my view those buffs or nerfs aren't needed. I just put that line in there to make it an option. They don't have too.

    And I'm not talking about WoW/Blizzard here. I compare how it currently is in WoW, but at the same time what I really want to see in Wildstar. I've given up on WoW. I still watch the podcasts and read the news, but just to keep informed of what Blizzard comes up with. So far I'm not positive about it. It's a good guideline on what I would want to see differently in Wildstar though. :)

    Edit: Response added after second reply from SiegaPlay:

    I'm a bit confused now. What I hope to see in Wildstar is only dynamic content without any buffs or nerfs.
  7. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Well, WoW is easier to use as sketch to this talk since we know little about how WildStar works, while WoW at some level is known by all.

    Yes, I think you misread my post.

    This is my lineup for progression if WoW like conditions, 0.5 gear stepup each step, and it includes both LFR and progressive (optional, since it can be removed) buff and spawning dynamic content depending on timed or otherwise achievement like requirements:

    1. lvl max 1.0 dungeons
    2. lvl max 1.0 dungeons dynamic content /
      lvl max 1.0 LFR
    3. lvl max 1.0 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of week /
      lvl max 1.1 dungeons
    4. lvl max 1.0 normal raid dynamic content, requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after new raid launch, the rest is still intact /
      lvl max 1.1 dungeons dynamic content /
      lvl max 1.1 LFR
    5. lvl max 1.1 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of week /
      lvl max 1.2 dungeons
    6. lvl max 1.1 normal raid dynamic content, requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after new raid launch, the rest is still intact
      lvl max 1.2 dungeons dynamic content /
      lvl max 1.2 LFR
    7. lvl max 1.2 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of week /
      lvl max 1.3 dungeons
    8. lvl max 1.2 normal raid dynamic content, requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after new raid launch, the rest is still intact /
      lvl max 1.3 dungeons dynamic content /
      lvl max 1.3 LFR
    9. etc.
  8. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Whoa, this is getting complicated. :eek: If I understand your list correctly the 1.0, 1.1 are the patch numbers.
    I understand what you trying to say and I agree with you partially. That is, with overlapping levels. The levels you have in mind are:
    1. Dungeons
    2. Dynamic Dungeons
    3. LFR
    4. Normal Raid with buffs/nerfs
    5. Normal Raid
    6. Dynamic Normal Raid
    If I read your list correctly, I get:
    1 < 2 = 3 < 4 < 5 < 6

    That is within one patch only. It gets more complicated when you add patch 1.1, because then you have to overlap content. Which is necessary in my view. Then you get:
    1 < 1.1 < 2 = 3 < 2.1 = 3.1 = 4 < 4.1 = 5 < 5.1 = 6 < 6.1

    It gets even more complicated if you add patch 1.2 and I won't go there, because I want to keep my sanity. ;)

    My levels are a bit simpler:
    1. Dynamic Dungeons
    2. Dynamic Raids
    1 < 2
    That's all. When you add a patch or two (with new dungeons and raids), you get:
    1 < 1.1 = 2 < 1.2 = 2.1 < 2.2

    So to explain in words: the new dungeons will be of the same level as the old raid, but lower in level then the new raid. The modes of difficulty lay within the dynamic content itself. The only 'set in stone' levels that exist are between dungeons and raids.

    I believe dungeons should prepare you for a raid, but the raid should still be a bit tougher to remain a challenge and that forces you to improve yourself.

    But because the dungeons and raids would be dynamic you control the difficulty yourself as well. You can make it yourself harder to aim for that time limit and get a harder boss. Or make it yourself easier by not going for the time limit at all. True, if you take the easy road or you just aren't able to, you miss out on content initially, but you are able to get another chance with the next patch.

    Like I said, it's getting complicated. But I hope I made it clearer how I would like to see this anyway.
  9. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I understand what you want, I just think the progressive buff still have its place, to make sure noone is going to burn out, when they still struggle to kill content months after the top end did it. Fast way to loose players at some point.

    My list has has 1 dungeon, but objectives spawns extra dynamic content.
    The same with the raids, but in addition there is the watered down version with LFR.
    So I also have one raid and one dungeon, I just added the dynamic content in the gear tier it belongs to.

    You did not get my list as I meant it, I listed by gear tiers, so some content share the same ilvl - and yes, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 is the different content patches, since they overlap inside the gear tiers:
    1. Intro level gear
      lvl max 1.0 normal dungeons
    2. Intro tier 0.5 gear
      lvl max 1.0 dungeon dynamic content / spawns in the normal dungeons when meeting objectives
      lvl max 1.0 LFR
    3. Raid tier 1 equivalent
      lvl max 1.0 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of weeks
      lvl max 1.1 normal dungeons
    4. Raid tier 1.5 equivalent
      lvl max 1.0 normal raid dynamic content / requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after 1.1 raid launch, the rest is still intact
      lvl max 1.1 dungeons dynamic content / spawns in the normal dungeons when meeting objectives
      lvl max 1.1 LFR
    5. Raid tier 2 equivalent
      lvl max 1.1 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of weeks
      lvl max 1.2 normal dungeons
    6. Raid tier 2.5 equivalent
      lvl max 1.1 normal raid dynamic content, requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after 1.2 raid launch, the rest is still intact
      lvl max 1.2 dungeons dynamic content / spawns in the normal dungeons when meeting objectives
      lvl max 1.2 LFR
    7. Raid tier 3 equivalent
      lvl max 1.2 normal raid /with progressive buff starting after a couple of weeks
      lvl max 1.3 normal dungeons
    8. Raid tier 3.5 equivalent
      lvl max 1.2 normal raid dynamic content, requirements to spawn includes no buff /no-buff requirement removed after 1.3 raid launch, the rest is still intact
      lvl max 1.3 dungeons dynamic content / spawns in the normal dungeons when meeting objectives
      lvl max 1.3 LFR
    9. etc.
  10. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    In my view the gear dropped in the new dungeons would be of equal quality as the old raid. Which closes the gap you might have before. With better gear you would have an easier time to clear the old raid and progress to the new raid afterwards.

    The buff is implemented in the gear from the new patch so to speak. In your view Carbine has to revisit the old content, add a buff or nerf encounters. This has to be tested and takes resources away from precious development time. Which is better spend on new content instead of rehashing old stuff.
  11. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    no, the buff is not added in old content, it progress, just like in wow, in the current content
  12. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Ah okay, you mean the buff is just switched off in the beginning? Sure, that is possible.

    Still leaves me with a feeling that they take the easy road, but that's just me. :)
  13. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    One can choose not to take the easy road and turn off the buff, and get the achievement for doing it the harder way. Besides, it is not like the buff is 30% on the first day.

    I did compromise according to your wishes, so the dynamic parts of the raid is only available until after next raid is launched :p unless they can trigger the spawn on normal mode after removing the buff.
  14. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Haha, that is not needed at all. I love a good discussion and we have one right now. We have different views and opinions, but that makes it so fun. In the end we can have the best ideas, but it is on Carbine on how it eventually will be implemented. All we can hope for is that they read our discussions and take some of our ideas in consideration!

    PS. Carbine, if you read this, we can always talk about a job! ;)
  15. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Looks like they are hiring, so get your buns in gear!
  16. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Yeah, seen those. But most jobs are local only! :(
  17. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    Holy hell...yeah I'm gonna have to come back to this thread after I've slept lol...just tried to read it through twice and failed.
    Black Wolf likes this.
  18. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    wtb a game studio with 100 virtual developement environment too :p
  19. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Sorry! :geek:

    To evaluate our discussion, is that the only differences between our ideas are that you still want that buff, that the dynamic content is only available after met curtain conditions and the split between between Normal and LFR versions. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    correct

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