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Has anyone noticed you still have to pay $60 for Wildstar upfront?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Haellion, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. MadBlue

    MadBlue Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was already OK with the idea of paying for the game and subscribing before they announced the payment model, so it's not a problem to me. The fact that it doesn't have a standard F2P option is going to deter people from playing when there are so many decent games with F2P or B2P options available and being developed.

    That being said, perhaps the hybrid P2P/F2P model wouldn't recoup what was spent in years of development. If you look at games with good F2P models, like Rift or Aion, I don't think they could have been able to launch with that hybrid P2P/F2P model in place. The P2P option in Rift gives conveniences and gifts, which helps to retain subscribers, while the F2P model gives, essentially, what subscribers got before F2P. If they had launched with that model, I don't think the conveniences and gifts would have been enough incentive to get a sufficient number of people to subscribe.

    I could imagine Wildstar at some point switching to a standard hybrid P2P/F2P model (hopefully more like Rift or Aion than SWTOR or LotRO) and I would hope that Carbine has a contingency plan for that.
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  2. Belligerent

    Belligerent New Cupcake

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    Are we reading the same article? Looks like you're just looking for something to complain about. No microtransactions for stuff that should already be in the game, is a good thing. Allowing people an alternative method of paying said subscription is also a good thing. I am wary of games that offer F2P or B2P models, since the devs of those games are basically saying " We have no faith that our game is good enough for your 15$ a month.". No thanks. I'll take the 15$ a month and a full game, with all the bells and whistles.
  3. Marakesh

    Marakesh Cupcake

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    While f2p and b2p are all the buzzwords now, from what I have seen of wildstar I have to wonder if lowering the box costs would be a better model for them. Keep the sub model but try and lower a barrier to entry. Probably won't get NCSoft to go along with that, its too risky to not get the cash up front, but I'd prefer that model that any of the other ones people have been bandying about.
  4. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    $60 barrier to entry is fine at the moment I reckon, but only so long as they release before ESO. There are no competitors at the moment. All the current MMOs have stabalised and lost their hype. Wildstar will be the first major MMO since GW2, and hopefully the first good MMO in a couple years - doesn't matter what the barrier to entry is, day 1 is gonna be crowded. And a healthy launch is the first step in a healthy MMO. Just everyone remember: rare is the MMO that launches with stable servers on day 1.

    If, however, Wildstar launches after ESO they'll need a lower barrier to entry to draw more of the ESO players.

    Also, regarding the OP, welcome to MMOs buddy. If we're lucky us Aussies won't get gouged on the price but even if we do I'll be paying it. If you think you can get a quality big-budget MMO on the cheap then good luck with that. Tell 'im he's dreamin'.
  5. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    The thing is ESO does not look that promising, and also not very ambitious. This game on the other hand, does.
  6. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    ESO is not aimed at the same playerbase as this game, neither is EQN, wildstar is not trying to take those players, completely different types of games.
  7. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    agreed.
  8. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't understand the issue with the price - unlike any single player game, that at most offers you couple of days of play time and costs the same, an mmo with 30 days playtime, provides as many hours as you're comfy playing during that time. The entertainment value of an online game is way higher.

    In the UK, 2 people going out to the movies and having some popcorn costs around that (popcorn/coke being pricier then tickets - yeah, it's sick like that )

    Yes, there are countries out there where average income is far from spectacular, but it's really not the fault of publishing companies, rather our own respective governments. And last, just wondering, why would it cost more to get the game in Argentina? If there isn't a regional client, then you go for either US or EU - considering WS offers payments through Paypal, you don't even need a card, can quite happily use PP balance - can't really see how you'd end up paying more? And last, there is a reason they came up with C.R.E.D.D as an alternative. Pretty cool solutions if you ask me.
  9. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    I beg to differ. ESO looks far more ambitious than the generic Wildstar. But that's beside the point. The point is that it has a an existing fanbase and hype of its own. A significant amount in fact. Whatever game comes out second will need to draw players away from the other.

    Edit: Also please please please try not to overhype Wildstar. I want the game to be successful so please don't set yourselves up for disappointment.
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  10. Novalith

    Novalith Cupcake

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    You're a little wrong. We can't use PayPal, not completely, because we need a US Bank Account to link it to, to make full use of the service. On top of that, PayPal usually charges something extra in our transactions.
    It is impossible in Argentina to use a PayPal account without an international credit card, or a US Bank Account.
    We are not allowed to "Add" money to PayPal balance other than direct deposits of other (non-Argentinian) users.
    In short, PayPal isn't the same in every country.

    The game costs more here because NCsoft doesn't market their games here (because they aren't really worldwide), so they are imported by third-parties which charge something for the whole importing thing, in contrast to Blizzard which does market its games here, and it allows payments through our "equivalent" of PayPal locally: DineroMail (which is very important in many countries in South America). This markup is usually from 15% to 80%, growing larger the bigger the base price is. (For instance, Assassin's Creed II was $50 in the US, and it was $72 here as a result).
    At the same time, sometimes some games cost more here for no apparent reason (like some Steam games which are delivered digitally). I mean, there must be a reason but I don't understand it.

    On top of that, NCsoft has been known to forcefully increase latency to South Americans and other non-US players to move them off their games and/or servers, because sometimes they perceive us as a plague of sort. But that is another matter entirely.
    And, of course, higher latencies because we're further away. So, having to pay more for a worse service is hard on us.

    This is all SEPARATE from our average income and how much works it requires us to raise $60, which, as you correctly said, it's a problem of economics best handled by the government.

    I want to say that I completely aggre with Wildstar's business model (except the CREED thing, which I believe will impact the game economy like it did in TERA). I just wholeheartedly wish they would market the game in our region (I'm not asking for a local server -that'd be too utopian...) and took measures to prevent forcing us to pay more (and, again, not do the whole "force higher latencies" as well).
    I was selfishly hoping for a F2P game so I could avoid some of this issues, but I know it hurts the game in the long run. And I prefer a level playing field, where everybody has to pay the same to play, and get no advantages for paying more.

    Only Blizzard's games (and some other minor examples) took advantage of this rising market here, so people are stuck without no other options. Wildstar could really change it if they choose to harness what our people are willing to pay, but are left with very little choices due to this.

    I apologize for my lack of English knowledge, as it is not my native language.

    Thanks for reading. :)
  11. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    I get really tired of seeing stuff like this. I could easily counter that ESO looks far more generic than Wildstar, especially since it's still Skyrim with a chat box. How about we don't insult the products of each developer, especially since our insults are based on opinions that entirely subjective?

    The MMO market is saturated enough as it is so please stop talking as if Wildstar and (insert whatever MMO/console system/console game) that is coming out at roughly the same time or before is the only competition they have. Both will still be competing with WoW, both will be competing with EQNext etc etc etc. The games have both differentiated themselves enough to develop their own followings so they both have the chance to be successful even without "stealing each others' players."
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  12. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    To begin with, I'd like to clarify that making a subjective statement that something is more generic or less generic than something else does not constitute insult. I think Wildstar is a generic game, but that doesn't mean I don't very much prefer it to ESO. I'm here posting on this forum after all.

    MMOs are highly competitive. There may be millions of players in the market, but it's still highly competitive with very high development costs. All big budget MMOs compete against each other. It's the nature of the business. The only MMOs that will not compete with these are niche titles - Camelot Unchained and the like. Even then they'll simply compete less.

    Yes Wildstar and ESO are very different games, but that far from means they have different markets. Not entirely the same, but their intersection on a Venn diagram would be huge.

    And yes they also compete with established titles but their pulling influence is miniscule in comparison. Their hold on their current playerbase might not be, but that's largely irrelevant.
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  13. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    In a market as saturated as the MMO market is today differentiation is very much key and a target of the Wildstar developers. By labeling the game as generic means that the developers have failed in attaining differentiation in your eyes. By MMO development standards, all MMO's would be "generic" since they are built on the same formula i.e. introducing content at different time intervals to keep a player playing in a repetitive environment. In the most basic form it's "push buttons and kill stuff" and with the exception of sandbox MMOs, is the basis of developing the game around.

    Indeed, there are millions of players in the market but you're forgetting one word. It's called "demographic." The basis of business is to maximize profits and the best way to do that is maximize your customerbase. Part of the development process is identifying who your customerbase is and market your product to it, in which case ESO and Wildstar are both marketing to different audiences. Yes, it's the same "market" but not the same "audience." The idea of competition and who is competitive with who is largely found in the playerbase, while the developers have their own goals in mind for the product that neither you or I could say anything about. You think they don't know ESO is coming out around the same time? If they were truly concerned about ESO's effect on their playerbase they would reschedule the release (similar to all game companies in Japan around the time of a Dragon Quest release).


    Opinion dressed as fact. It's very much relevant when you consider potential profits. Knowing your business landscape is more important than you give credit.

    I know you and I both want Wildstar to be successful, after all I plan on buying 2 copies of a Collector's Edition (one for myself and my wife) and putting together a dedicated blog and Youtube channel on it. Playing up the competition as a reason to release sooner rather than later to improve short term profits isn't necessarily a good idea since MMOs make their profits off of long term service (all MMOs are in the hole for development costs for the first 3 months minimum). The real question is not whether the business plan is a good idea, or if delaying to spring 2014 and competing directly with ESO is sound strategy. The real question is whether or not the opportunity cost of delaying the game to spring (potentially 3-6 months) is worth the return of the changes being made to improve the game before launch as I see the biggest dents in their profit margin being based on their own actions more than their competitors.

    I'm not hyping a game that's coming out at least 6 months from now since I'll be killing time on Final Fantasy XIV (haha, you want to see generic?), but I honestly don't believe the state of competition will be their downfall. The quality of their product in a market saturated with sub-par products will be the important thing and we won't see the results of that probably until winter of next year if all things go well and the game releases on the current target.
  14. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    No argument. You're absolutely correct. And yeah I suppose they did fail to convey differentiation to me, but that's not a problem. I still really like what Wildstar offers and I'm keen to play it.

    Edit: Well almost by definition any niche game is not generic. PvP MMOs (kinda), 4X MMOs, sandbox MMOs, life sims etc etc.

    If they're not concerned about ESO then they're nuts. Of course they should be.

    I'm not entirely sure what your argument is regarding the audience. Are you saying the audience of the two games are completely separate and that both games won't compete for players as a result? Because that's just plain untrue. There will be a core Wildstar base who don't care about ESO, and a core ESO base that don't care about Wildstar, but these are the surely the minorities. The majority of players of both games are surely going to be somewhat interested in the other.

    You misunderstand in what context I say it's irrelevant. Of course it's not irrelevant from a business standpoint, but it's irrelevant in the context of this discussion in that, for example, a WoW player who has no chance of playing Wildstar OR ESO is irrelevant to the discussion of these two games' relative audiences.

    No arguments with anything here. Well, except for calling FFXIV generic. That's an insult to everything generic. :p

    FFXIV is just plain terrible. It's just slightly less terrible now. On launch I think I made it to level 10 or something. In beta for Reborn I made it to 13 or something. So as far as I'm concerned it's 3 levels better. :p
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  15. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    I say audience in demographic because they're both appealing to different segments within the same audience (the same way Coke and Pepsi do, which by the way Coke rules). Generally when both target different market segments, both will be in decent shape and it's left to the two to compete over the guys on the fence. And to that I say, good luck Wildstar if you want to enter that battle. Either way, my point was both will be "fine," just neither will reach 100% opening market attendance if they want to go head to head that way.

    Point taken, I can't help but see this from the business perspective. And you're 100% correct, when I was really into WoW I had absolutely 0 interest in playing other games so it will be extremely hard to pull from any "established" IPs.


    Yeah... It came down to playing it and going back to WoW, and I didn't even play the first FFXIV since I heard it was pure <REDACTED>. I opted for XIV since I'll have real life friends playing it (who will be with their guild of people I don't really like so it's kind of a wash) and something "new" to do for 6 months. And yeah, it's a whole new level of generic :p
  16. Novalith

    Novalith Cupcake

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    Instead of defending the game, which still isn't available to most of us, let the game defend itself.

    Remember, Wildstar can apply to some guy's tastes, but it can't apply to everyone's. Someone might think Wildstar is generic, some other dude might thing ESO is generic. Or WoW, or whatever.

    Some people will not like Wildstar. And that's ok. And it's even better! Let people who like the game play it. Let the rest play other games.
    Fortunately, we have a lot to choose from.
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  17. Kellth

    Kellth Cupcake

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    Maybe not to you because it seems you have experience but to the common video game player no one wants to throw away 60 dollars.
  18. selodaoc

    selodaoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ill probably spend more then 60$ if theres some kind of CE

    I end up paying WAAAAAAY more in a F2P since im a maximiser, and beeing a maximiser in F2P games costs a fortune.

    Also, 60$ is what you pay for a normal game for PS and Xbox etc, usually even more. And those games doesn event last a month.
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  19. Dirty Outlaw

    Dirty Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Which is why you research and look at reviews that are honest (pro tip not ign), wait for the mmo gamers with all their podcasts and youtube channels to say yay or nay. Honestly its not a hard thing its like people can't be bothered to be informed or wait till the masses buy and leave or stay. If you can't wait you will have to research and make a decision sorry thems the breaks.

    From my viewings of wildstar vids and not just dev vids from people who actually care about mmos wildstar has gotten me to want to buy. Now if I can get my hands on beta I can even further cement my decision to purchase or hold back if the game is lacking enough to not want to purchase. But as of now I still find it worthy of buying.

    On the other hand TESO has me on the fence since from the videos I saw lots of red flags for me appeared now I can check newer content and it may change my mind or get lucky and play beta and make a better more informed decision. Right now my decision is to wait it out and see what the peanut gallery decides.

    As long as you don't get caught up in the hype machine you can gauge games very well on your likes and dislikes and wildstar may very well suck it happens. If 60 bucks is gonna break the bank you need to reassess some things or at the very least don't expect to buy new games (but please don't buy from gamestop think of the game companies).

    It's simple seriously it's like no one can be responsible for themselves anymore. And its not just mmos its everything idk man maybe its my age or the times idk this shouldn't even be a discussion. There are just too many ignorant, gullible, tasteless, consumers out there and its why innovation is more of a risk than rehashing the same stuff over and over again.
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  20. Konoko

    Konoko Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's only slightly higher than most initial MMO purchases (49.99). Hey these guys work their tail off they need to somehow recoup some money. I'm guessing they are in debt to NCSoft for a very large sum of money. Meaning they have to see some RoI. I have no problem with the price tag. I'm sure they will still be on the low end of the totem poll at NCSoft unless the game has a good turnout for about a year. They are under a lot of stress I would imagine. However, they are doing what they love and these guys are having fun making this game. So give them a break and buy the game and give it a good try. Don't be so pessimistic. They will do all they can to make it viable for you guys.
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