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Healers in wildstar

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Bazeleel, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Fireblade

    Fireblade New Cupcake

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    The AMPS for the different classes will also come in play. It might be so that the Spellslinger have better response to the AMPs than the Esper making it a better healer at higher lvls. Of course i am only speculating here but I think that if we are gonna discuss who's better than the other we need to look at the whole picture. Not to mention tiering your abilities. We have seen little or none tooltips on Teir 8 for the different classes.
  2. Whistler

    Whistler Cupcake

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    No healing class is going to be better than another. Carbine has stated that all three healing classes will be able to main heal, or fulfill any healing role required. This is due to the versatility of the LAS, ability tiering, and AMPS.

    Now obviously Spellslingers have a different toolbox than Espers. They have more shots down the middle and are probably more geared towards direct heal skill shots and AoE skill shots. Espers have been shown to have more targeted heals, large AoE heals, some skill shots, and it was mentioned they had more HoTs than Spellslingers.

    But again, Carbine has stated many times that just because a class is more geared towards a certain playstyle you don't have to play that way. Any healing class will be able to change out their loadout, swap some skills and tiering around, and be most effective for any given boss fight or situation. They specifically designed the healing classes to have their own flavor, but never be passed up in specific conditions merely based on their healing style.
  3. Laura

    Laura Cupcake

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    I have to admit I am a little worried about the lack of targeted heals for tank healing with the spellslinger. I have this image of the slinger healers yelling at all the melee to stack on the tank if they want the heal, the melee soaking up more damage because of it, the healer getting more and more stressed out....etc, etc. I noticed in the live stream that the esper spec'd hybrid in heals to help out the slinger.

    Also, does the esper cast time on the targeted heal seem long to you guys? Maybe the cast time is reduced by tiering though... All I know is 2.75 secs can be an eternity when you are trying to keep a group up.
  4. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    They have not shown all of the skills for the Spellslinger to know what targeted heal options they have. You don't need melee to stack on the tank. You can have melee stay stacked directly behind the mob and you stay behind the melee and shoot all heals on your tank through the melee, and the melee will need to adjust to put themselves in your friendly telegraph to get healed along with the tank. There are other healing build, strategies, and positions you can explore, and each will have benefits and drawbacks. I look forward to having to adjust them on a fight-by-fight basis.

    The cast time on the targeted heal is because target acquisiton for that spell is instant, compared with free form spells that have to be aimed. If it is too long it will have to be balanced, but I am sure they are currently leaning towards the free-form being superior heals to get people to utilize them more and get used to them.
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  5. Valin

    Valin Cupcake

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    They didn't show that much of the healing, or non at all, that the spellslinger can do in the twitch livestream. The range pictures was nice, seems like spellslinger has more directed heals and narrow healing area then esper. Atm I feel like esper is the healing-class for me, but I'm VERY curious about medic.

    Still as people mentioned, no healing class gonna be "the best", as it's up to skill and playstyle.
  6. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    No this is incorrect. Most of an Esper's heals are tab target style based on the tooltips we saw during the Esper livestream (and many are single target as well). That is the only thing that might possibly make them easier at healing mobile targets, but then again a skilled Spellslinger could be good enough at aiming those freeform heals that they have no problems with the mobile Stalker. I honestly see this as a likely scenario so I don't think we'll have one class being vastly better than the other. Plus we already know that the freeform heals will be more effective since they're harder to aim than the easier tab target which doesn't have to worry about targeting at all. Carbine has mentioned this design idea before and reiterated it during the Esper AMA. And we've already seen it in skills like this:
    The price for that heal being a no-brainer to target with is the extremely long cast time and can only target one person, whereas Soothe targets 3 people (including the caster, major bonus!) on a shorter cast time and slightly less base healing. So for a skilled healer than can routinely get 2 people in that telegraph, Soothe is a far better usage of both time and resources - 36 Focus for 1851 health (617 split between 3 people as you can see in the stream) and only a 2 second cast time - with the freedom of having an instant or 1 second cast for less healing if need be. Whereas Mind over Body is 41 Focus for 769 health (1 person only) and a 6 second outgoing heal buff on a 2.75 second cast. I see that one being good for tank healing a raid but that's about it and not even sure that it's going to outshine other skills from other classes anyway.

    I'll be rolling a Spellslinger most likely. I love the freeform healing style and the fact that they have more direct heals and all freeform heals in general are AoEs which will be fun. We know the Medic is most likely a more midrange healer (and didn't they say more shield based?), so that's not quite my style. The look of the Esper is cool, but I want an action combat healer, not whack a mole.

    Besides, seeing the skill on the livestream for both DPS and Healing skills for Esper, it's just all over the place. The class needs more focus and a clearer vision, instead of skill types that vary so widely. If you want to build a freeform healing Esper, you're limited to only half your healing skillset. While those skills look pretty cool to me, those choices are far too limiting. I'm afraid if I play a class that has that many targeted heals I'll be forced at some point to slot them. Or that my handful of freeform heals will not be right for every situation.

    Whereas if I choose Spellslinger, I have almost a full skillset of freeform skills to choose from which will allow for more build variety and a player can truly choose what works when. And from what we know the Medic will have a lot of freeform heals as well which will be nice.

    I honestly don't think Carbine even needs any targeted heals. I think they can get around any aiming issues with better designed heals. For one thing some of those telegraphs were pretty large - even some of the lines - so I think they're underestimating the fans when they think people won't be good enough to learn how to use them and they're doing them a disservice by not encouraging them to learn. Aside from that, we already saw cool effects like with Soothe only healing your most injured allies which could be a great functionality for emergency "Oh <REDACTED>" heals they they claim they need targeted heals for. And from the Aiming Devspeak we already know they've played around with circle telegraphs placed a fixed distance from the player - which would be a great way to design a tank heal for a player that was not great at aiming. There's no risk of a bunch of dps in front of you "stealing" heals by jumping in the telegraph, and a circle that large is not going to be as difficult to target one guy with. I'm sure they've thought of a bunch of other ideas, too. I'm sad to see they haven't continued to develop those and have stuck with the unfun and uncreative old style tab target for so many skills.
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  7. Timer

    Timer New Cupcake

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    I am just studying...
  8. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    The targeted heals do multiple things for Wildstar. There are healers that like wack-a-mole, or at least think they like wack-a-mole more than aiming. If they are not given at least some sort of safety net of targeted heals, they will just not play the game, even if they might learn to enjoy the free-form healing. Having targeted heals allows diversity in the classes and raid healing composition. There is a limit to the variety of free-form heals until they overlap and become redundant, and having the targeted heals now allows the healing kits to grow with free-form skills in the future (including any new healing class).

    Even if targeted heals are not viable (or have niche viablity) for the top end of content, they can still be used for easier content, for players that aren't as skilled. This allows healing to be more difficult at the high-end without completely alienating the rest of the playerbase. It is the same reason why developers make easier to use builds/classes/characters that are not optimal, or are not used at the highest level.
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  9. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Except this is not a targeted, whack a mole game. Wildstar is like 95% freeform skills and focuses on action combat elements like dodging, aiming, positioning, breakout gameplay, etc. Why then does it make any sense to try to appease to a tiny subset of gamers when this game is not in any way being marketed to their playstyle (healers are a small group, tab target healers in an otherwise freeform game is an even tinier subset)?

    People that want to tab target heal are not going to play an action game like Wildstar, they're going to play one of the many tab target games on the market. By adding in so many tab target heals, they're ignoring the main target audience for this type of gameplay and reducing the amount of fun skills we have to play with.

    That would be like having a bunch of tab target style heals in TERA or Neverwinter. That would be ridiculous and out of place with the rest of the game. It's a lazy way to solve problems and bad design.
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  10. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wildstar is not targeting just action MMO players, they are targeting all MMO players. The tiny subset of healers would be healers that are coming from action titles like Tera and Neverwinter compared to the tab-targeted healing population. This game also wants to entice those interested in 40-man raiding, which has only existed in tab-target games. The healing population is also not just an isolated population, as they can influence their tank and dps friends.

    It really is a small compromise to have a single healing class able to targeted heal with around half of their abilities. In terms of more fun skills, it would just lead to ability redundancy, class homogenization, or extremely niche abilities very early on, the game needs to be able to grow.
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  11. Nadili

    Nadili New Cupcake

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    Does anyone feel like we will see hybrid heal/dps similar to the icar specs in Rift, I was never a huge fan of how OP they were, however I can see raids stacking decent dps with some burst healing for big AoE's. From the classes they have shown so far I could see spellslinger filling this role unless there is some barrier to building your spec.
  12. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    We already know that the AMP system has a section for "Hybrid" as well as "Utility" and the skill book has a tab entirely devoted to "Utility", so Carbine seems to be somewhat encouraging slightly different builds other than pure tank/dps/healer which I am excited about. But they won't be overpowered for the simple fact that DPS and Support (Tanking and Healing) have two entirely separate stats.


    The game may be targeting a wide audience if they want a lot of subscribers, but Wildstar is still an action combat game whether they like it or not. And if my comparison above between Esper's main targeted heal and their main freeform heal is any indication of the rest of the game, and those quotes I linked from Gaffney and Hugh seem to say yes, those tab target heals are going to be much less effective than freeform heals and I'm not sure how great they're going to be at endgame content. Which if you think about it makes sense - it's easier to do and Carbine is designing this game around being more difficult and rewarding skilled gameplay. Offering those skills and allowing them to be ideal for endgame content are two entirely different things. Since Gaffney said it best I'll just quote him:

    The man's got a point. Letting someone be the best at this game while ignoring the main feature of this game's combat and one of their selling points, would be silly and piss off a lot of those players working hard to excel at freeform dpsing, tanking, and healing. Targeted healing will be something to get people started but they'll have to learn freeform healing for the hardest PvE and PvP content, probably only using targeted heals in emergencies. Although I see a lot of healers not even feeling the need for that even, because for one thing switching between freeform and clicking the UI is not exactly a quick or smooth transition and there are some great and well designed freeform heals from what I've seen so far, so they may not even need to.

    And honestly, freeform healing is going to be a lot more fun which is really the most important thing. Watching the battle for where telegraphs are so you can dodge, where your teammates are so you can aim etc. is far more engaging than staring at the UI all night.
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  13. Elloa

    Elloa Cupcake

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    I need to see what the Medic is made of before to take my final decision, but so far, I believe I'll want to play a Spellslinger.
    Really enjoyed Tera's action healing. I want to know that again and be in the middle of the mess, shooting heal in my allies face. :D
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  14. FelixAkuma

    FelixAkuma Cupcake-About-Town

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    Never been serious bout healing in a game but thats mainly because i couldn't be bothered levelling that class~ That's a thing i love about this character, i can max level my spellslinger or esper as a dps, then switch my armor and amps to be a healer and play with the action set :)
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  15. Adrakka

    Adrakka New Cupcake

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    Not to bust your bubble or anything but i actively play rift and have played since beta. there is nothing challenging to playing a chloro. Infact they are all round better healing class then the cleric in every instance except for spike damage that they just cant pump out, or heal other chloros... lol

    the reason they are so overpowered is their low skill level to master and their mixed dps/heals. A very rewarding class with a low skill cap, nothing against them, i play a cleric and i love having them to cover 90% of the non spike damage. I have to try as hard as possible to keep up with some of our chloros as they slam 2 buttons... but you can't replace a good cleric :)

    I honestly hope there is no healer in game like that unless they are all like that. Once you outgear something it takes away full healers roles. Just like a full healer takes away a supports role once the people outgear the dungeons. ( not riads unless your guild full of idiots that think they can do better without support buffs )
  16. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Among the Wildstar Healing classes....

    I think I'm leaning most to the Esper. Mostly because of preference I guess. It's telegraphs are slightly shorter range, but more AoEs. I can see how fun it would be dropping the little glowing goldfish healing spots like in the lifestream while using the large AoE heals. The secondary buffs that provide 'armor' also look like they would be fun. So, to me it seems to combine a couple different ways of support.

    The spellslinger? A lot of the spellslinger considers of long range, but relatively narrow telegraphs. Such relatively 'direct' heals might be stronger than an Esper, but it also seems to lead to a 'static' kind of playstyle. One that requires standing still, charging the heal, then firing it.

    I'm kind of interest now what kind of mix the 'medic' class will over.
  17. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually it's quite the opposite. Most of the Esper's heals are single target and most require them to stand still to cast. Whereas the Spellslinger's heals, being nearly all freeform, are by nature all group heals of varying types (and from the stream we can see that the lines, being rather wide, can quite easily catch 2-3 people while the cone shaped and other shapes catch even more). The Spellslinger also has more mobile skills as well as better utility skills that allow for greater movement as well so they'll be a very mobile class in general.

    The Esper due to Psi Points will also have a much more spammy, rotational healing style. So if you liked AoE heals, you'd spam that line shaped stationary freeform skill on Esper several times to build Psi Points, maybe throwing in the GtAoE fishies once or twice, before being able to use your finisher skills. But, you have 2 PbAoE style AoE heals as finishers which, along with the line telegraph and the fishies, are the only freeform AoE heals the Esper has. The rest of Esper skills are targeted single target heals. The only oddball skills is a freeform damage skill with a minor HoT attached but again, that is a stationary skill.

    As far as buffs, it's a mixed bag. The Esper's armor buff is a single target skill, not a group wide effect. One of the single target finishers had a Tier effect that also increased armor. The single target heal with the lamp AoE provides outgoing heal buff to whoever stands in it, but that's only good in raid PvP or PvE scenarios where you have other healers who can benefit from that. The only real groupwide buff they have is one of those 2 AoE finishers I mentioned which increases Dash regeneration for a few seconds. You can of course slot some utility skills and some of those have interesting CC and debuff effects.

    Looking at the Spellslinger, they do offer direct groupwide benefits. One of which was mentioned in the stream that is a damage/heal combo skill that also buffs the Strikethrough of nearby allies and debuffs the Strikethrough of nearby enemies (along with the healing or damage of these enemies/friendlies). Another friendly group buff that was mentioned was a groupwide absorption shield. And then there's the heal buff that we saw with the big HP signs on the stream that provides a 20 second buff on the ally that heals them automatically when they take damage. I can't remember what I took this screenshot for but that green buff on his bar with the 14s on it is the HP buff and I'm not sure what the other thing is.
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  18. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    Neither of the currently announced healers really jump out as "me" which is a concern for sure because I only have one more chance with the Medic lol.

    Typically in MMOs I play the "tougher" healers. Never the cloth wearing priest types, but rather the scale or plate Warden(DAoC)/Paladin(WoW and EQ)/Guardian(GW2)/Trooper(TOR) types.

    Fortunately, I also love playing Tanks so if the Medic isn't for me, the Engineer is almost certainly going to be.

    Speaking of the last two classes, has Carbine said which one coming this Wednesday?
  19. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    I never stated they would be ideal in endgame, I said they could be just fine for easier content (which the vast majority of the playerbase will participate in), and have niche viability in raiding. There is value in having heals that are guaranteed to land on the target no matter the movement requirements, especially for tank healing and during the learning process of progression raiding. That is the niche that can be served by targeted heals. Nothing in his comment leads me to think that those heals cannot fill that niche and are completely wasted spells in an Esper's toolkit for endgame raiding. Certainly, I expect the difficult content to need a much larger percentage of telegraphed heals.

    Only new and/or bad healers stare at their UI, or complain about having to stare at the UI because they have not learned how to view the fight and heal at the same time. Good healers are already watching the fight to avoid damage, predict and pre-cast for the incoming damage output, and coordinate healing and tank CDs.
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  20. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    You sound like you have never healed in a non-targeting or free aiming game. It's hard to really explain unless you've done it but it feels different than tab target healing in a positive way. It's an entirely different experience. Yes a tab target healer needs to pay attention to the fight, but in an action combat style game healing is so much more free which is why it's more fun. You're more engaged in the fight and feel like you're more a part of it as opposed to standing back watching and reacting to it, not to mention being free of the UI and being able to aim all the heals is just awesome. I think Elloa seems to get it though. :)

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