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Healing: News on how it will work

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Optimisticnerd, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    So in order to do a Yogg style encounter the game needs an auto attack?

    I don't see it.
  2. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because, it's apparently the pinnacle of Action MMORPGs despite it's commercial failure.
  3. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    • Try to avoid circumventing the profanity filter
    The mechanics of that fight and something like Tera simply don't mesh.
  4. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    You've yet to explain why.
  5. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    You haven't made any attempt to explain why because you clearly can't elaborate on how any of these mechanics work in any real detail, you just percieve a fuzzy idea of Action MMO without understanding how any of the game systems interact. I'm calling you on it because I know that you haven't properly defined the terms that you're using, and can't actually explain what you mean.

    Can you pick Yogg Saron up and plonk him into TERA and expect the fight to work in a sensible fashion? Of course you can't as they aren't the same game, but the core mechanics of TERA (ie. those which are seperate to the individual skills of the classes) don't prevent any of the Yogg mechanics from being carried over. In fact, i'd suggest that Yogg would make an excellent TERA fight, as the madness debuff and consequent need to avoid as many attacks as possible would translate very well to TERA's combat system.

    The reason i'm mentioning TERA again, is because you haven't defined 'Action MMO' properly, so i cannot refer to the specific mechanics of your Action MMOs and explain which would and would not work well in that type of fight. You haven't decided what your phrase means, so I have no choice but to refer to TERA, as you seem comfortable that the game fits within your definition, whatever that definition may be.

    So lets talk TERA. Kelsaik is a top end 5 man boss with a long list of abilities split over multiple phases. He applies debuffs to players which have to be toggled between 2 states periodically by running into specific boss attacks, otherwise the debuff will kill you. He leaves large areas of ice or fire over the ground which have to be avoided and reduce the available playing space. He has 'burn phases' where DPS have to prepare themselves to take his health past specific percentages before certain abilities kick in. He has mini-DPS races mid-stage where a certain amount of damage must be dealt before any healing abilities will work on the group.

    He deals constant periodic damage to players throughout the fight which must be healed, and his final stage involves a continually stacking debuff which deals increasing damage over time to players while also increasing their damage output. The healer has the ability to dispel stacks of this, but the damage buff is required to beat an enrage timer, meaning the healer must balance between healing heavy damage from a stacking dot, and dispelling only when necessary to keep the dot managable.

    How does that suit you lad, am i breaking down some misconceptions here?
    Naunet likes this.
  6. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    In general, I believe I can do my Job better while moving as a healer in a Traditional MMO.

    If I get "tethered" I can still throw hots and shields while I'm running to or away from the other person regardless of where I'm running.

    If I get a debuff where I'm supposed to be at "X" or I'm gonna wipe the raid.(Like the Astromancer in Tempest Keep lol) I can still throw shields or hots as I'm running away regardless of where I'm looking.

    Seems to me that I can do a lot more while moving with a traditional style UI, as a healer.

    The bottomline is you are going to be doing less as a healer in a healing environment where people have a short-timed CD for avoidance.

    It's not more skillful because you have a roll button. I wish people would stop equating dodging and rolling with skill.
  7. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    [quote="

    So lets talk TERA. Kelsaik is a top end 5 man boss with a long list of abilities split over multiple phases. He applies debuffs to players which have to be toggled between 2 states periodically by running into specific boss attacks, otherwise the debuff will kill you. He leaves large areas of ice or fire over the ground which have to be avoided and reduce the available playing space. He has 'burn phases' where DPS have to prepare themselves to take his health past specific percentages before certain abilities kick in. He has mini-DPS races mid-stage where a certain amount of damage must be dealt before any healing abilities will work on the group.

    [/quote]

    You are talking about a 5 man boss lol vs Targeting, dispelling and healing up 25 people.
  8. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    The Kelsaik encounter has been turned into 10 man and 20 man versions in KTERA. The patch will hit NA by the middle of May.
  9. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am willing to wager that they'll be near "Zerg" Status:)
  10. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Well for dodging/rolling there isn't any skills needed, i give you that. You can just keep on rolling when ever it's ready, whatever way you want to etc.

    But skills are needed for the following:
    Timing those dodges/rolles in order to avoid the maximum amount of damage or achieve some other of ''maximum'' status (like being in the correct spot) in a given situation.

    For PvE this may not be that hard, but don't go comparing PvE to PvP. Mastering those dodges/rolles will be a key element in order to win in high level PvP matches.
    So in that perspective ''succesfull dodging/rolling to make the maximum out of it'' can be equated with skills. For i believe skills = being able to get the maximum (out of something) with your abilities to do so.

    It's more skillfull to use that ''roll button'' to it's maximum potential.


    But don't take everything too exact, since i'm saying dodgin/rolling requires more skills from time to time aswell.
    If i need to explain my thoughts behind it everytime i post it, i won't have any time left to make any other posts/comments.
  11. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Clearly my comment wasn't for you, then? You know the people I'm talking about though. The ones that forget that although Traditional MMOs may not have a dodge button they still have things like: LOS, CCs, Stuns, Interupts.

    The skill is not in the mechanics. The skill is in the tactics used. You seem to already get that.
  12. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    If we play an "Action MMO" and don't bother to bind roll to a key, does that mean the game can do Yogg-Saron?
  13. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    Having actually seen the fights in question, I can say pretty confidently that they aren't "zerg" status.

    Are you ever going to actually explain what you're talking about? I'm thinking TeoH is right about you.
  14. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well you've made your love of his comments known since you and he/she are both are co-liking each others post so much. I've already made multiple posts on why why I feel the way I do. I'm not gonna sit here battling with fanboys.
  15. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    No. Because I've already stated you can do more as a healer while moving with a Traditional UI. That's indisputable.
  16. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    Wait, the UI? What part of the user interface is missing from TERA that would prevent the Yogg Saron encounter from working? The Deadly Boss Mods or the DPS meter?

    Edit: Actually sod it, i'm done with the thread, I already know this isn't going to go anywhere and i'm just wasting my time now.
  17. Twinflame

    Twinflame Cupcake-About-Town

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    As someone healing full-time in an action MMO, Chosenx is just coming off as silly to me at this point. Why does this whole conversation suddenly revolve around assuaging his obviously ill-informed preference for WoW-style MMO healing. This isn't a WoW-style MMO. It's an action MMO. I'm not usually one to play this card, but if you don't want to action heal, don't action heal. I wouldn't want to go back to traditional healing at this point.

    Incidentally, TERA's commercial failure has nothing to do with its combat. TERA's combat is seriously the best thing ever, but every single other mechanic sucks in that game, including quest and PvP implementation, and the gear progression system, not to mention the ridiculously invasive cash shop that existed even back when it had a sub. That is why it's a commercial failure.

    So, yes, while the game is a commercial failure, the combat system is well worth describing. As I've said in past posts, I've never had more fun in an MMO than I've had healing in TERA, and I've had lots of experience in MMOs. If I could transplant TERA healing into Wildstar wholesale, I'd be okay with that, but all I'm doing in this thread is espousing that action healing is super snazzy.

    +1 chuckle



    Very, very disputable, considering I have a roll, a retreat, and a targetted spell that my priest can cast while moving and heal 2-3 players for a full healthbar, not to mention I can also shield the entire group while moving. I do have to stop moving to dispel debuffs, though, which is terrible, right? Although mystics can dispel and put out crit buffs while moving.
  18. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Can it be any 3 players or just those in your field of vision?:cool: Stop to dispel you say? :laugh: And we are discussing healing. :)

    You and your buddy have fun.
  19. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    Listen, I have already said I HAVE NOT played Tera. You guys saw Tera and homed in on that. I am saying that in my experiences with Action Style MMO healing. I felt limited in ways I have not in Traditional Style MMORPGs.

    This is not a debate about Tera.

    I am not limited in anyway(As a healer) other than my resource in Traditional.

    I Find having to face your targets very limiting from a healing perspective and feel that it can affect encounter designs. Most of these style of MMOs just rehash bosses at a larger size and call them raids. That is partly what has led to that belief. Someone has said Tera is going to be making a 5 man boss into a 20. That's 3 of the action environment MMORPGs that have done this now. Vindictus and Raiderz have done the same or similar.

    That's where my belief comes from that Healing has a huge impact on how you design encounters and why I think Traditional style MMOs have more varied and deeper Raid Encounters at this time.

    I'm repeating myself, I know. But seriously, this is the 3rd time now that I've seen a boss just being scaled in a Action MMORPG. What's limiting them? DPS and Tanks are doing the same thing they do essentially in both styles of MMORPG. They are facing things and hitting them.

    We(Healers) have always had TRUE FREE TARGETING(outside of LOS issues but, then we got smart targeting.). Now you have to build around everyone facing people and account for a Short CD Evasion.


    Edit: It was fun debating the merits of each system with all of you but I'm going to stop here. We'll see how they handle the things when the game is released.
  20. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wow this thread turned into a flame fest real quick on both sides.

    Now let me just point out that I haven't played the game, so I am just going to on what the developers have said about healing.

    The way I imagine healing in this game is that you have a lot of your heals in form of telegraphs. The developers have also that stated that there will be single target heals in the game. The effectiveness of the heals between the telegraphs and single target heals can be something that changes drastically over the course of the game, so I don't think we should really be worrying about that yet. Rather focus on how the two interact with each other.

    Developers have also said that tab targeting is in the game. This can be used to auto aim telegraphs to monsters. I am assuming that if you can target a monster you can also target a player, so your telegraphs will aim towards the player if you target them. This can be used to target players in a raid, instead of hovering over a circle around the player for each heal.

    Since we can target things, we can also assume that there will be raid frames. If the developers don't give us one, I am sure the modding community will be able to provide us with a pretty good one.

    So from my understanding this sounds morel like a hybrid of targeting and action combat. So this isn't gonna be exactly like wow or Tera. Its gonna be its own thing, and until we get a chance to actually see this stuff in person or on youtube its all speculation.

    As for this yogg stuff I did yogg in wow, and completed it on all difficulties, it was a good fight, but I don't want to see a repeat of it in Wildstar. Wildstar is its own game. Spreading out, having debuffs, and damage that isn't avoidable will be something I am sure we will also see in Wildstar. Fights will be complex, and difficult, and I am sure it will be more than just avoid telegraphs.

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