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Healing: Self-sufficient or dedicated class?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by nilihanth, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. michii88

    michii88 Cupcake

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    Hey guys, been a lurker for a few months but thought I should just my two cents out there for the discussion. My idea would just be to have a healing, tanking, and dps tree for each class. each class would have their cool way of doing each. Then the developers can just focus on balancing, so that every class can do either efficiently without forcing the community to have to roll a certain class, because class X is better at class Y.
  2. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    This is pure win as long as each tree is truly focused and not a blend of the roles. Once you start blending them then you loose out. A specialist is a Master at their role and jack of all trades is a master of none. Each class having the capability to specialize in any role is great, but the abilities and how they used need to be very distinct and different. Down side of doing this is it triples the number of potential abilities each class has.
  3. WildZhen

    WildZhen Cupcake-About-Town

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    and the amount of future whine :ninja::D
  4. michii88

    michii88 Cupcake

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    I definitely agree with you, the trees themselves should each solely focused on on aspect, but if a player chooses to go a hybrid route then that's the player's prerogative, and make it viable should be responsibility on the player not the devs.
  5. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Hmm, a healing mage or warrior. A priest that can tank. Don't see it work, sorry. Some classes can't just do everything.

    I want the opposite what is now common. I want a Priest that only exists because the only thing he is good at is healing someone, a Mage spewing out burning hot fireballs like no other and a Warrior that slices enemies like wet cake with his awesome sword.

    It forces people to work together in a Holy Trinity system. Where are the times that you needed a group to finish a quest by clearing out a bandit camp? I hope to find that in Wildstar.
  6. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    I think we both saying the same thing Black Wolf. What was purposed is to allow each Class to pick which path to follow. Since Wildstar doesn't present the typical Priest Mage Warrior classes to cover those roles unless they locking the Esper to healing, Spellslinger to DPS and Warrior to Tank. We have Esper, Spellslinger and Warrior. Lets take a look at possible ways to do each one.

    Esper: Uses the power of the mind to cause effects in the world.
    Heal Role: Focuses on accelerating the victims mind and body to accelerate healing or be resistance to the pain to continue the fight. The Mystical Healer
    DPS Role: Launching deadly attacks (we seen the videos). The Ranged Magic DPS
    Tank Role: Uses mind shields to prevent damage, confusion and distraction techniques, maybe mind clones to take the damage. The Evasion Tank

    Spellslinger: Using guns and spells
    Heal Role: Using Healing Dart guns, spray antiseptic and forum to fix wounds and aliments. The Gadget Healer
    DPS Role: Powerful Guns Launching deadly attacks (we seen the videos) Ranged Physical DPS
    Tank Role: Spells for shielding, Guns to trap, Immobilize and weaken foes. The Debuff/Shield Tank

    Warrior:Tradition Class with lots of weapon and Armour choices
    Heal Role: True combat medic, takes a beating while pulling damaged friends from the field, using med kits to heal.
    DPS Role: In your face DPS (we seen the videos) Melee Physical DPS
    Tank Role: Heavy armor Tank, can take a beating, defensive fighting techniques. Mitigation Tank

    Now the way I see it, you would have to pick a path for your class and specialize. Very few abilities in one path would be the same as the other. We would still have the trinity, we just wouldn't be locked with every Esper being a healer, every Spellslinger as DPS and every Warrior as a Tank. There could be a way to blend a couple of paths at end game as long as it not to blended, else it defeats being specialized.
    SiegaPlays likes this.
  7. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    This isn't terribly different from how DC Universe Online does roles, and I like it. In DCUO, you have a system where each Power (Fire, Ice, Nature, Gadgets, etc.) had two roles. All powers had DPS by default and all are pretty good at it if you spec for it. At the same time, each power had a second role you could switch to, changing the nature of most of your skills.

    In that system, you don't necessarily lose out on whole branches of skills because the skills themselves are altered to fit the role. Not all skills, but most. My Sorcery hero in DCUO was spec'd for Healer, but nothing stopped me from being a decent DPS on-the-fly when a situation arose when too many healers were in a group. I wasn't great DPS but passable.

    This forces that Priest player to rely on a DPS or tank to help him through the entire game. Surely a class that is only good at healing could not progress through the leveling system of the game on its own simply because of the lack of enough damage. This "pure" method is only feasible if the game assists in the areas where your class lacks.

    Guild Wars had NPC henchmen and, later, hero companions to help. GW2 has the players to working together even if they're not in a group because they took away Kill-Stealing. This would be better for a pure healer because he would be welcomed to follow a group of people that is in the area already working on the same goal. Granted, better healing comes from an actual group (party) of people for better "people management."

    I'm just saying that a pure role system cripples the inevitable individual play. Something has to be done about it. I love playing in groups. I prefer it over being alone, but I cannot tell you how many times I've asked to join a group of 2-3 people that were obviously working on the same goal only to be declined and shunned, and therefore we instead hinder each other's progress by stealing kills and/or quest objectives.
  8. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with a lot of this stuff.
    I think there should be dual specing in WildStar. Mostly because I feel each spec, assuming all three Holy Trinity roles are available to each class [and remember not all the classes have been revealed yet!], then they should each have different abilities, and little to no access to the others.
    This spec choice should be fairly early on, the game giving you a selection of abilities from each tree as you level to it.
    And if they -DO- do multi-speccing, then when you switch specs, you should switch equipment for it too! Automatically.
  9. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Oh, I don't know. Maybe a priest that can heal and nothing else can heal a target so much it causes the outer skin, (or whatever it is) to grow over itself until it completely encapsulates the victim. :D

    Anyway, I know what you mean. I think the thing is that healers need to be the most proficient at healing many times greater than anyone else with poor fighting skills that make them just squeak by in a fight.
  10. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Sorry, but we are not. I don't want any class to do it all. I want a class to do one thing, and only one thing good. So yes, a healer can only be good at healing. No freaking dps or some weird tank construction.

    Yes, this will create dependence on dps and tank classes. After all, this is an online mass multiplayer game is it not? You would actually have to socialize and work together in the game to get something done. How outrageous!
    Michael72 likes this.
  11. michii88

    michii88 Cupcake

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    Just gotta say that I love this idea. Anyway, that's basically what I was getting at, along with dual-speccing would be awesome. Each class with the ability to specialize in a part of the trinity, and dual-speccing would deter the community from Hybrids types that are at best "meh" in doing more than one job at a time.
  12. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    Ok I see what you are saying, but respectfully I think you are mixing the terms Class and Role.

    I agree the Tank role should only be able to tank and the Heal Role should only be able to heal. I just feel that the class should not be locked to that role until that make the decision to which role they wish to fill. Then they are locked in and progress down that line and only that line.

    The problem I see in most MMO's currently, is that you don't know if you are going to like to play a tank with the mechanics until you do it, same with a healer. Making the class only able to do a single role means that if you decide that the role it has is not to your taste, you have to start completely over with another class.

    Having the capability to do multiple roles (albeit not at the same time) means that you can try and see what truly fits for you with out penalizing you to start the entire game over again. Make it difficult and or expensive to change roles and keep the abilities sufficiently different to make it feel like a new character, without having to level again, or at least not completely level again gives more flexibility.

    Also only having one way to tank or heal is not very interesting as a game overall. The tank needs to have a few different ways to tank in their specialized role of tank. Sword and Board, Duel Wield (spinning blades of doom shied) or Pure Mitigation from armor are just a few examples. Are all those available from a single class or over various classes that have a designed tank line?

    Until we see have Wildstar is addressing the Class vs Role vs Path vs unknown it is all speculation anyways.

    Very good discussion thus far :)
  13. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Class equals role in my opinion.

    I know some games do it this way: start out with basic class like warrior, mage, ranger etc. Then a specialization in two or more classes like Berserker, Guardian, Paladin, Sorcerer, Necromancer, Thief, Archer, Druid, Cleric etc. Just some examples.

    I like how this is done in FF XIV.
  14. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Black Wolf, you -do- realise thats the perfect way to reduce the amount of healers in a MMO, right?
  15. Nectavian

    Nectavian New Cupcake

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    To clarify, are you including "specs" in this equality? Meaning the Priest example has no way, even though a spec, to do damage?

    I can agree that each individual spec be pure, but not allowing a character to change their role through a re-spec system seems a bit extreme to me. Meaning WoW's version of Druid was bull<REDACTED> and the original ability to blend role-based specs was bad, but the idea of separate a healer and tank Paladins makes sense to me. That said, they should probably be limited to two roles...so no dps Paladins.
  16. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Yes, I do. The pure healer will take the class anyway. Some people want to punish themselves hehe. ;)

    Maybe they would be able to some damage, everyone can hit with a stick right? But in no way they should be able to do as much damage as a dps class. The purpose of this is to force people to group up and socialize more. Like the old D&D.

    It is extreem and I'm really sure this will not happen in Wildstar. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind if it was like this.
  17. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well I for one like levelling solo. Groups are 'end-game' content for me. People level at vastly different speeds and everytime I've tried to level with friends, it's never worked.

    And anyway this is all moot since I've just remembered Carbine specifically said each class can DPS in one of the interviews, although I can't remember which one. No doubt one of you guys with a better memory will link it in a reply though! :D

    And we've all seen footage of the Esper (Look I remembered Starspun!) in action in pretty much every bit of footage they've done so far, and it's the only revealed dedicated healer class so far. (So I'm assuming different Specs.)
  18. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I hope they have different specs for the classes. So if I choose to play a tank or healer in endgame I can level as a DPS if I want. Even at endgame I might want to PVP as a DPS sometimes and sometimes a healer.

    Though I hope I do not have to pay to respec all the time. Maybe let me be able to have 2 or 3 saved specs I can switch between for free. Then if i want to tweak it I would have to pay.
  19. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    You and me both...
  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I love this. Archclass determining gadget/ability/armor/weapon speciality, subclass is the role and how to use the speciality for that role. Instead of making a gazillion classes, make class/role a two step choice.

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