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How do you feel about "Limited" Action Sets?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Ingsoc, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Celtkhan

    Celtkhan Well-Known Cupcake

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    I shivered at the first sentence. "People who want challenge are killing MMOs?" Really? How many of the dumbed-down ezmode mmos are thriving?

    Arguing about an LAS on a forum where the game is designed for LAS seems counterintuitive to me. Trying to follow the WoW model at this point would involve scrapping YEARS of work and starting all over. WS will be LAS. If that's a dealbreaker, then you probably shouldn't waste time on a game you won't enjoy. Harsh, but true.

    I like LAS. It means less duplication of abilities, less ability bloat, and my choices actually matter, both in build and in combat. It also means that my Stalker will be uniquely mine. Whereas my Death Knight is exactly the same as every other Blood Death Knight across how many hundreds of servers (I've yet to see a MoP talent that actually matters).

    If having every ability available all the time "just in case" is so important, there are a great many MMOs out there for you, including the 900 lb gorilla, WOW. I'm sorry/happy to say that WS is not one of them.
  2. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

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    You don't need to be clairvoyant. You need to be capable of learning from your mistakes and adapting to different scenarios.

    You go into a fight and die. Figure out why you died. Figure out what you can do next time to not die. Odds are you didn't fail because you didn't have THAT ONE SPELL in your kit. But it's not entirely impossible.
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  3. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    The thread isn't called is LAS a game breaker for you, it's not called LAS is in so go find another MMO if you don't like it, the thread is called "How do you 'feel' about LAS" and that's all we are saying.

    Obviously no game is perfect for everyone and there are going to be things I wish were different about the game, and just because they clearly aren't going to scrape LAS doesn't mean Carbine can't read opinions here and see what our problems are and integrate solutions to mitigate some of those complaints while maintaining a LAS system.
  4. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Not sure if this is aimed at me or the guy I quoted, because I generally agree with you and put words to that effect in my post :p
  5. Lsya

    Lsya Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm actually enjoying the smaller hotbar setups we're seeing these days. I liked in D&D and EQ how I had to pick and choose which abilities to use. It made me shape my character's role.

    Then newer games came out that eventually let us have pretty much all of our stuff on the hotbars. I really liked that at first, but lately I've begun liking a more scaled down gaming model.Maybe because I'm getting older and just like playing a more relaxed style than I used to. ;)

    I log into LOTRO now, and I see my character screen filled with 6 hotbars full of abilities. I don't even know what they are anymore. I haven't played it in a few months.

    I learned to like the smaller bars again in TSW. Then DCUO, and lately Neverwinter. I feel I'm enjoying the games more, because I'm able to focus on the gameplay and less on managing my UI. With the focus going more on action combat with the mouse, I don't have to play hunt and peck with the hotbars as much.
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  6. Maldwyn

    Maldwyn Cupcake

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    I tend to think that some people are primarily "tactical" and some are more "strategic". And I'm not using those as any kind of pejorative, just as an observation. My sense is, if you like to think strategically you tend to like LAS better - thinking BEFORE battle (or analyzing after battle) becomes a big part of the next fight...meaning in many ways you "win" or "lose" before you engage by selecting an appropriate deck. If you focus on the tactical you tend to prefer having all abilities available to you because for you the fight is primarily the action part.

    Obviously we all do some strategic thinking and some tactical work in order to actually learn and fight and (hopefully) win. So I'm not claiming anyone's completely one way or the other. But I do think that opinions regarding LAS probably are similar to preference for strategic or tactical thinking.
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  7. Celtkhan

    Celtkhan Well-Known Cupcake

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    Mostly agree with you, although your caveat in the end of your previous post was a bit confusing whether you were pro- or neutral on LAS.

    And Soylent, it may have started as "how do you feel about ...", but it's rapidly being co-opted by the "LAS sucks and this is why" faction. For those to whom it IS a dealbreaker, I have to wonder why they're on a forum for an LAS game?
  8. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I am indeed neutral, the reason for it is even with unlimited action buttons, you'll only use the same buttons regularly that you could fit on a LAS bar anyway.
  9. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't know about that there are quite a few supporters of LAS in here and "LAS sucks and this is why" is how some people feel, at least they are providing feedback as to why and it can be constructive criticism rather than I hate this just because which provides nothing constructive.

    If it's a dealbreaker for some then yes they will be disappointed with Wildstar, it certainly isn't a dealbreaker for me but even then if they have constructive comments to add and reasons why they don't like it then it's still a valid contribution.
  10. Maesyn

    Maesyn New Cupcake

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    For games with combat similar to WoW, Rift, EQ2, ToR, etc., I agree 100% here. What I'm curious about though, is how this translates to Wildstar's combat. I get the feeling it's going to be a mix between GW2 and traditional action-bar combat systems. With the telegraph system I'd hope that dungeons/raids would provide enough challenge that healers are needed (i.e. can't move out of everything, or rare you avoid everything), thus making healers really useful, but not providing enough that people can just stand in the fire like some games. Ideally you'd have enough in your arsenal to be functional and still provide utility as a dps'er when called for, but not have a redonk amount of cooldowns due to the lack of unavoidable damage.

    Most of the games mentioned above have a ton of unavoidable damage, both on the tanks and the rest of the raid team, usually resulting in healers and tanks needing a great quantity of abilities, both reactive and proactive in nature. I'm hoping with the telegraph system that dungeons and raids will reduce the need for constant, unavoidable damage, while still giving healers a reason to exist (because "healers" in GW2 being rez-bots is boring).

    I think the fact they are designing combat with the trinity in mind bodes well, where ArenaNet spent so much time trying to get rid of it. In my opinion, they succeeded in getting rid of it and replaced it with a more boring system (run around like crazy and rez everyone constantly).
  11. SuperomegaOP

    SuperomegaOP New Cupcake

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    Hopefully Its a little bit more open than GW2 which only allowed 10 abilities in combat or 15 with a cooldown for most classes. I would like about 20 for active play, and then the rest to swap out etc. 20 is a good number for mmos
  12. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    I've played games without it

    I've played games with it

    and for me personally, I had a lot more fun finding great ability combos and uses for my abilities with it than I ever did looking through my library of abilities without it.
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  13. Rawhide

    Rawhide Cupcake

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    I think it will lead toward more personalized characters. Player A will favor abilities 1,5,8 & 9, while player B will favor 2,3,4 & 7. As long as they keep the abilities balanced, this should add variety to the game.
    As long as we aren't talking about hot swapping from tank to healer on the spot.
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  14. Glacius

    Glacius Cupcake-About-Town

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    Limited action sets aren't really that limiting. I'd rather have a selection of X spells that all have a use (In Wildstar every ability will be useful at cap, even ones from level 1), then a saturation of 30 abilities, 60% not even having any use for my spec.

    Take MOBAs for example. Each hero has only 4 abilities, with some of them being passives. Despite this, heroes can have a lot of synergy with their spells and each ability has a use.

    Having choices to make about your abilities is also fun in itself; trying to figure out which comboes are effective is a great way to customize your character. Just like Carbine has said, you could build your stalker to have a lot of utility/stuns and you could still be effective, especially in PvP.
  15. Blegvad

    Blegvad Cupcake

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    LAS force the devs to make sure the gameplay is very compelling through the entire leveling experience through to the end game. Waiting for 50 levels for a"capstone" ability or being reliant on abilities with a long (15 min+) cooldown leads (IMO) to bad and lazy design.

    I'm currently taking a break from any active MMOing but having logged into old SWTOR and LOTRO accounts recently I was just astonished at how many abilities there were and how many hotkeys I had configured. It's a bloated and antiquated system and I'm glad the current trend in MMOs is focused on active combat and a lean/mean set of skills.
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  16. Ego13

    Ego13 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Having more abilities doesn't mean more skill, more challenge, etc..

    I love the idea of action bar sets, it gives you a way to tailor yourself for each situation and also adds another level of strategy (ESPECIALLY in PvP). You can't just look at an Esper and know which abilities they're going to be using.

    This also opens up a HUGE door for raids. Gone are the days of people saying "sorry we already have a warrior/esper/etc.", granted they'll be looking for a specific skill for each but if there's 2-3 desirable skills needed for each class that means that there are more invaluable people, since you'll probably only want 1 of the "required" abilities on each person so they have their high damage etc.. abilities. (pure speculation, of course).
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  17. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like it, mainly because I can only comfortably bind 17 abilities. But also all the other smart stuff people have said.
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  18. Scelestic

    Scelestic Cupcake

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    I believe that I will enjoy the "Limited Action Sets". Personally speaking I only use a few abilities anyways, and the others become situational. So LAS is a way to cut out the fluff, replace it with balancing factors, and a nice bit of meta game for players to min max to their hearts delight and really craft their characters through what abilities they choose to use! Plus, its only limited in the sense of abilities you can have active at one time! You still could have bajillions of Abilities to choose from.
  19. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    Definitely, water elementalist before Evasive Arcana fix in GW2 was one example, and healing in Tera was another example. You don't need a thousand different ways to heal someone, especially with telegraph system. It's still a challenge to keep everyone alive while trying to survive everything that goes on in a combat, it's just a different kind of challenge compared to say, WoW healing in raid. And it would still be a lot of fun, I think many healers will embrace the different mechanics and emphasis.
  20. Crybone

    Crybone Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like Las, and the way it makes each player unique in a way. Though there is one problem I might have with it, and that is cooldowns;

    The way guildwars did it with weapon swap was cool. Though i felt really limited when one or two spells had 30 - 40 sec cd. It ended up with 3 skills used.

    I hope that we get a decent amount to chose from so that I can decide to have a "action packed arsenal". I don't want half of my skill set to be 30 - 40+ sec skills.

    -

    Feel for reference:

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