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How do you feel about "Limited" Action Sets?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Ingsoc, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Draegan

    Draegan Cupcake

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    I prefer games where I don't have to configure my keyboard or G13 to run 20 different keys.

    The latest in this is GW2 and they got it right.
  2. Kihra

    Kihra Cupcake

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    I have no problem with Limited Action Sets, although I am hoping that the number for tanks and healers is more than 10.

    Especially for tanks, 10 buttons seems extremely limiting. A tank ideally would have an interesting DPS rotation, a few survivability cooldowns and some utility buttons.

    I'm concerned that 10 buttons isn't going to be enough. Even just a few more, say 15, would go a long way.

    I'd be very happy with 20. :)
  3. Shaigh

    Shaigh Cupcake

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    I enjoy having a basic rotation coupled with situational abilities, survival abilities, long cooldown abilities and possibly some fluff abilities on top. After slotting my healing abilities in dungeons I want to still have 2-3 damage abilities, not because I always will use them, but just in case there are times I could use them.

    The way it was implemented in other games has made them much less enjoyable and my hope is that it wont feel too limited or its a potential gamekiller. At least 10 choices is a whole lot more than 5-7 choices.
  4. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    After playing WoW for 7 years and running out of places to put buttons, and playing GW2 where we have a limited action set, I prefer the limited set.

    As long as you can swap the buttons when you want (out of combat, of course), then I see no problem. It makes it a bit more tactical and comfortable to play. I mean, having 50 buttons can get really unmanageable.
  5. rivalcycle971

    rivalcycle971 Cupcake

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    I'm not against or for it as long as it's fun. Played a couple great games w/ limited sets and some great games with tons of skills. If it works, it works.
  6. Ego13

    Ego13 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Meh...rotations are the worst thing to happen to gaming since LOTRO. Having abilities that have a meaningful use at specific times is so much better. GW2 was *close* although most classes you just end up using every ability as it comes up (unless you're an ele or mesmer).
  7. kentheprogrammer

    kentheprogrammer New Cupcake

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    I played both WoW and GW2 (amongst others, but these are good examples of the two "extremes").

    In WoW, I liked having the choice or option to use whatever abilities I wanted. When I played my ice mage around WotLK, I was probably running a basic rotation of 5-6 main abilities for DPS. I don't have a fancy gaming mouse with 25 buttons on it, and I don't like to have to do key combinations - so I mostly stuck with ~10 at most hotkeyed and then had mounts, food, drink, buffs, etc... on bars hanging out that I could click on whenever I wanted to.

    On the other hand, GW2 got boring to me very quickly. I'm not sure why. I though I would love the limited skill set thing - since I never used a lot of skills anyway - but the combat there just got stale for me very fast. I think some of it had to do with most of the utilities that you might only use occasionally had to be included in most of the classes so that they always had the tools they needed (interrupt, snare/root, stun, etc...). To me that resulted in the weapon skills basically being used whenever they were off cooldown and the utility skills to me just seemed very lackluster in many cases. I liked the idea of the Mesmer, but playing one just felt like a chore. Many of the skills felt very situational, and it felt like there was only a single optimal "rotation" for most of the weapon sets.

    I think I might still prefer the limited skillset thing - but it has to be built right. Even though I kept myself within a ~10 skill limit most of the time during active combat in WoW, that doesn't mean it'll be enough for everyone else. I also want the game to succeed and if it means having more active abilities than what I might find optimal to keep enough people engaged to have a healthy population, then it's all good to me.
  8. WildStone

    WildStone Cupcake

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    Coming from a hardcore PVP'er who's very comfortable using +40 keybinds even on a regular $5 buck keyboard and mouse combo, it's a great idea imho. The question is how are we going to implement it?

    GW2 had excellent design elements but the way they implemented their LAS was poorly done imho making combat feel predictable, repetitive and boring by the time you got to 80.

    Carbine Studios clearly has the most talented, intelligent, innovative and experience development crew in the mmo market and together with our collective feedback i'm certain we'll create the best LAS system on this side of the cosmos. :D

    In Carbine we trust ;)
    Zilvoran likes this.
  9. Luc

    Luc Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't like this idea. Like other people said, if u want to role a tank/healer with some DPS spells , u'll be screwed by the limited action bar. I do prefer free hotkeys though i think it can work with 14+Keys at least. To be honest what really screws with this kind of combat system are the long CD's. Ultimate abilites usually have a long CD, and if u have only 7 holes to fit your skills, you might not want to spent one hole with an 120 seconds CD skill cuz it's just not worth it at all. another point is the Classes, i have been playing ragnarok for almost 9 years (long time), and some spells are better against some types of builds and classes and so does equipment. if you are playing 1x1 its easy, you can just check your opponents items and build your build. but if you can't check your opponents items/build, it'll be just a NOOB and stupid fight, because if u get hit by a BIG CRIT, u'll say OH SNAP! should have got my "shield spell" , too late you will die and loose your Duel. don't come saying you'll learn and change your skill set, this is just stupid, a Duel lost is a Duel lost... and of course in 3x3/5x5/big fights, how can u depent in only a few skills? you'll be playing against at least one of each class, and u'll have your skills set complete before fight, you'll get raped by the ones that counters your build without any chance of defense :(

    its just silly. in a combat things unexpected happens... and when it comes to your face damm... you better be prepared . thats one of the things u can't do if u have a "limited skill system". you CAN'T be prepared for everything though you've learned all the spells.
  10. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    That's the thing - unexpected things happen in combat - IRL you can't counter all the unexpected things you come across either, doesn't mean you can't be as prepared as possible. you're forced to make decisions with the LAS - it's a good thing, you can't automatically counter everything thrown at you - just as whoever you're fighting can't counter everything you throw at them. Also, no - you can't learn all the spells at once (at least not from what we've been told), you'll have to pick and choose even among the spells you can buy!
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  11. Luc

    Luc Cupcake-About-Town

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    In MOBAS , the most important points aren't the synergy of spells with your team, but to Counter the enemy's team. this is why heroes are picked ONE by ONE, for example, if i pick a hero that can froze you, do magic dmg over time and blink away. your option is for sure taking a hero that can use a cleanse spell (to unfrozen you and your friends and undo the magic dmg over time) and also a Silence to avoid the enemy to blink away. in MOBA things are Predictable because there's a Picking and Banning Phase.

    In mmorpgs there's no banning/picking phase.




    ( sorry for the double post :speechless: )


    wow, thanks that's good news, not being able to buy/unlock every spell its nice, just like rag.

    thats the point! if i can't counter everything , i'll feel like a punchbag. its not nice to you a good player that have a very good apm ( action per minute) not be able to defeat other people just because of this "limited skill system". ( yes i'm very competitive :inlove: )
  12. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    I dont think there will be a scenario where you cant possible beat someone due to skill sets, they mentioned that there will be soft counters, but no hard counters.

    i dont like not being able to buy every skills, i like having options, and i dont feel like leveling the same class more then once.
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  13. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    well, you can sell the skills back and buy others - so if you find you don't like skill P you can go and buy skill T if you so wish. and you'll have more skills bought than can go on a single action bar.
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  14. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    ah thanks, i tought that once i had spent all my skill points there would be no going back.
  15. Nunchi

    Nunchi Cupcake

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    I honestly used to think that any games with limited action sets were bound to fail, and still think it some-what now. I can't speak for this game, but for GW2.. it's getting me frustrated even thinking about it.

    It is not overwhelming, all it takes is practice. Not even that much either.
    I can't see how anything besides a raid would be challenging with 20 or less skills.
  16. MrWASDclick

    MrWASDclick Cupcake

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    The thing that I didn't like about GW2 was the first 5 buttons you get: The 1-5 weapon skills.

    "So you want to dual wield axes, huh? Well, here's your single target throw, a short-range cone, a bouncing throw, a spin around in place attack, and a boomerang throw!"

    "So if I take a sword as a second weapon, can I keep the spinny attack and short range cone on the hand that has the axe?"

    "If it's in your off hand, you keep the spinny attack. Main hand gets you the cone. No exceptions."

    "B-But I know how to use all those skills! I'm right handed! Why can I only throw a boomerang attack with my left hand?"

    "No! Bad player! No logic for you, you take these five skills, in this order, and you LIKE IT!"

    So yeah... While it's a bummer we only have one weapon to start with, (who knows, maybe we can get new weapons with expansions?) I'd rather have full control over what goes where in my skill bar. I didn't appreciate having 1-2 abilities on my weapons that I rarely or even never used. (I'm looking at you, Guardian.)

    But having to balance 6-10 to meet the needs of my role, situation, and game mode was actually quite nice, and made the game more accessible to me. WoW had the distinction of having buttons EVERYWHERE. Your pots, your trinkets, your situational cooldowns, your attacks, your self-heals, your mana recovery, your raid buffs... It was ridiculous to a guy like me, who is... Rather ponderous when taken out of a certain comfort zone. "Okay, Leaping Slash, Charged Whallop, Shield Stance... Oh F*** he teleported behind me! Where's my stun removal? Ah! Shift+K! There it is! I need to rebuff, so Alt+2! Oh balls, this is my Warrior, not my Esper, I just popped Berskerer Stance! Where did all my health go? Um... Potions! Alt+Ctrl+Insert! What do you mean I died three seconds ago!?"

    (I know, those keybinds are horribad... But for me, having 30+ keybinds, and buttons to click... It's just overwhelming. Especially between different characters and games.)
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  17. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    But that is because GW2 did it wrong.

    it gave the players a limited ammount of skills, and didnt give the players any barely choice.

    GW1 does it right.

    it gave players many many options, and your skill set was a integral part of your build.

    Gw2 you just chose the best weapon and you are set, the last 5 skills are also very limted and the optimal skills are very obvious.
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  18. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    I agree with that, though I would like to see something more like 20 skills personally.
  19. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    the only problem with 20 skills (aside from binds and most people not being able to handle them without a naga/nostramos)
    is that for that to work well the devs need to develop a <REDACTED> ton of extra skills for every class.

    with 8 if every class has 30 skills, there is a lot of choice involved.
    20 with 30 skills, not so much
  20. alan

    alan Cupcake

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    Wait so what your saying, is that I could have like "20" some useable abilities, but only like "10" action buttons, and if an ability isn't on one of those action buttons, I cannot use it? And this is a confirmed thing?
    Kataryna likes this.

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