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How do you feel about "Limited" Action Sets?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Ingsoc, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    It sounds like they are already trying to limit which skills you have access to in the first place by limiting the points available to buy them, so we already have some limiting and strategic picking of which skills we want. After this limiting of abilities and 2nd "tier" of limitation just seems forced and unneccessary, we bought the skills we presumably know them as we can switch outside combat freely.

    Limiting actions bars really feels like it will just add tedium as people are switching abilities between boss fights while the rest of a 40 man raid for example are already waiting for stragglers and AFKers and have to wait through more ready checks. Of course this is just an example problem pulled off the top of my head from raiding but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at. (I hope)
  2. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I like it. It makes you think about your build/role a lot more.

    Never liked the WoW type with all the skills and full slot bars.
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  3. Wreck

    Wreck Cupcake-About-Town

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    Limited action set is very good, in my opinion, IF it was limited to a good amount of skills that will be enough to provide a certain diversity that's needed for every class and role. As a healer, I want to be able to dish out some DPS, while still being able to have some form of CC and defensive ability(s), and at least 4 healing abilities.

    Earlier demo videos have shown 12 abilities on the bottom bar and the option to have an upper bar with also 12. The new video shows only 9 on the bottom but no upper action bar. It worries me.
  4. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I will never understand how its more strategic to have limited abilities.... easier yes, strategic, not way... (as i said above when i say limited i mean abilities between 5-15 approx)...
  5. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    And how many abilities you think you need for that? is limited enough? it isn't that's around 20...
  6. Wreck

    Wreck Cupcake-About-Town

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    20-25 is limited enough and has potential to fulfill my definition of diversity in spells.
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  7. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    GW2 started out like that in beta where you could purchase any skill you wanted to. They eventually went to a tiered system as well. The issue that they came across was that people just saved up all their points for a high point ability from the get go and never tried the the low point abilities. I am not sure that I found out what the result of this behavior was but it must have been bad enough for them to change to a tiered system. I would suspect that it had the effect of making the content artificially more difficult and also left people with a boring gaming experience (even though they created it themselves).

    I understand where you are going with this - I guess the concept is similar to having a particular set of gear for a a particular boss fight. If they do have something like this then they are going to need to have an easy way of swapping those abilities out (which they sort of hinted at in the ZAM article).
  8. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    20-25 is not limited!!! ofc you get to choose, but you can't call them limited... i would call them ideal
  9. Ayr

    Ayr Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's an okay system, GW1 was fun, but looking back, very cookie cutterish. Face it, the fewer skills you're on, the more spammy gameplay is going to be. That said, some classes in AION, like Templar, had a bunch of skills, but the actual rotation wouldn't have been much bigger than the 11 proposed here. And people really loved playing that class.

    Perhaps the skill slots can have depth. Ie. chain type skills, so you can have 2/3/4 skills on the same key. AION had plenty of that.
  10. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I remember this I was beta testing this at the time of the change, but the key difference here is that GW2 had enough skill points through normal play that you could acquire all the skills for a class at level cap, so while they made you wait for some that "tier" of limitation never existed.

    In contrast Wildstar seems to allow you to have multiple builds but your builds will not have the points to buy all the skills available for your class in the first place so they have already limited you as far as a skill set.
  11. Azzurri

    Azzurri Podcaster

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    Carbine said you can sell skills and buy skills.
  12. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    There are 2 key points here, lets see...

    1. How many abilities you'll have in total
    2. How many of those abilities you ll have available at each time on your bars

    For me, both should be balanced, as i said to my other post above, i consider 5-15 abilities way too few, something between 20-25 would be the ideal for me. i wont elaborate more on that, did that before)

    When it comes to Total abilities from which you ll be able to pick the ones you can use, i frankly don't care at all, it doesn't matter if you ll be able to buy them all, or a portion of them, why it matters? how can it be bad if you need to specc gold every time to respecc abilities? i am perfectly ok.
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  13. Ayr

    Ayr Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sounds like Stigmas in AION
  14. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Do you happen to remember where that was?
  15. Zerdav

    Zerdav Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'll argue it.

    First underlined:
    No you don't. To have a choice you must have at least 2 options, with an unlimited set you have only one option: all.

    Second underlined:
    And that is somehow not the case with a limited skill set how?

    Something you must consider here as well, is that developers must approach to designing the encounters differently based on the size of action set. So if they design the encounter right, you bet it will require strategy regardless of the action set size.

    Personally, having played both variants, i find limited set more fun. Simple as that.
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  16. Rotto

    Rotto Cupcake

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    A limited action set can go pretty far. Look at the original Guild Wars for example. Each class has a pool of abilities they can draw from but can't use all of them at any one time. They must have a clearly defined goal in mind and select their skills to meet that goal.

    Granted the game suffers from terrible power-creep as it grows older but it is still a very strong example of successful implementation and deep, meaningful strategic choices.

    But like others have said, if the pool is relatively limited or has a handful of clearly superior abilities than that removes most of the customization and player preference and gives us First Order Optimal Strategies instead.... it will be disappointing to say the least.

    Related video if you wish to learn about such strategies and why they are bad (because an excuse to link an Extra Credits Video will always result in a linked video ;))

  17. Azzurri

    Azzurri Podcaster

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    I can't remember, but it was in a video.
  18. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    I see where you are coming from with that - it would possibly limit creative use of skills. You would definitely only spend points on what you really thought you would need...
  19. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Thanks, I will see what I can find.
  20. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Regarding your first observation:

    I never said unlimited, you said it, i said MORE, more than 5-10 abilities...

    Regarding your second:

    Again depends on the amount of available abilities, if its just 5-10 no we can not talk about strategical usage

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