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How is crafting going to work and will it be worth it?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Alverant, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. Alverant

    Alverant Cupcake

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    I'm new and I'm sorry if this is has already been covered but since the game is between betas (I think), this is as good of a time as any to ask.

    I love crafting and resource gathering. When it's done well (my definition which may not be yours) it's relaxing and a good way to unwind after work. I've played other MMOs and sometimes crafting felt like it was tacked on later and and neglected. I believe there are two main reasons for this.
    1) Treasure drops from killin baddies or finishing missions is always better than the stuff you make
    2) Items never break so once you have your ultra-rare loot, you don't need to craft.

    How is Wildstar going to handle these problems?

    Will everything be player-made?

    Will items wear out or break?

    Will baddies only drop raw materials and/or components for crafting?

    What about people who don't want to craft? Will they have options too?
  2. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    We don't know

    We don't know

    We don't know

    Nah, seriously, he best materials will require you to raid/warplot to gain the materials. As the crafter can set the stats on a piece of gear whereas loots are randomized you can hope for some high end gear to be craft made! And i don't think item will break, this is nonsence in a MMO. We still lack many informations on crafting though so wait and see.
    Alverant likes this.
  3. Alverant

    Alverant Cupcake

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    Why do you think it is nonsense? If items don't break, you have nothing leaving the in-game economy and reducing the demand for new items. Unless items leave the character (wear out or break) then everyone who wants the best stuff will eventually get it (in theory) making all lesser items worthless except to sell for currency to NPC vendors. At that point items just become cash that takes up an inventory slot. Who would buy a lv2 whatever when everyone else already has a superior model.
  4. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think we have already enough programmed obsolescence in real life, we don't need it in a MMO. If i spent so much time and effort to get the perfect item, it shouldn't ever break, you will have to replace it soon enough with new tier and such.
  5. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I believe there will be a need to "repair" your items, so there is that.
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  6. FruitPunchHero

    FruitPunchHero Cupcake

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  7. Alverant

    Alverant Cupcake

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    So what happens when you reach the highest tier? Shouldn't an MMO that wants to retain players for years always have something to offer them, some new goal even if you're of max level? If an item doesn't break or get damaged requiring repair then you may not appreciate it as much. Use your back up weapon most of the time and save the perfect item for the big battles.
  8. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    This works well in Fire Emblem, not in MMOs. And goal in PvE and PvP isn't gear, it is a mean by which you kill people or monsters. Of course there will be a repair mechanism, game do need money sinks but no irreversible damage or destruction, it cannot be. And do you really want to craft "back up" or "second hand" Weapons? I personally don't, i want to craft mother<REDACTED>ing badass weapons and armor that can compete with the high-end stuff out.

    Again, WS will use heavy randomness even on raid gear, so the chance of getting "the" item is low, lower than other MMO i would say, starting from here you have two choices, wait for the right roll maybe for a long time or go with the crafting solution, and here 2 scenarios pops out, or crafted item are equal to the perfect roll raid item and therefore making raid looting completely obsolete or your crafted items are slighty under these items but still are viable therefore making a good option to level up your gear.

    I think if you say 100% optimal is BiS, hardest dungeon BiS is 70%, crafting should be in 85-90% range. Keep in Mind that they plan a 8% tier difference in stuff and gortok stated they expect players with 100% BiS in a tier to keep this piece for the next tiers and that they don't expect everyone to get BiS at all.

    I think all this should reassure you on the fate of crafting, no it will not be useless, but making it as needed as making gear break forever is extremist.
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  9. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    Disclaimer: Pure speculation.

    One: Though there will be great loot to be had with questing and other sources, crafting will also be a source of good equipment, if what Carbine says about it being a viable End Game route is true.

    They have hinted that Crafting is much more active and variable than other games, so you don't necessarily gather all the ingredients, follow the recipe, and out pops an item. With Circuit Board Crafting (CBC) you'll have to hunt down ability chips, from base stats to more exotic effects; power amps to actually use them; and find equipment with good configurations to maximize your chips and gear.

    You may keep a lower level piece of equipment simply because it has a fantastic layout, and have to recycle a raid drop simply because the configuration is very inflexible. You will also have to hunt down "The" chips from various sources.

    A BiS could very well be a Raid Drop that has been extensively modified by a Crafter. A BiS could also be a crafted item that requires a lot of chips and a great layout.

    This is not taking into account Housing and War Plots which is an entirely different market. Construct turrets or a death machine? Maybe a divine dining set that can't be obtained elsewhere? The possibilities are endless.

    Two: No. Crafting could be a pre-Raid or dungeon thing, or constructing exotic defenses and buildings for War Plots, Housing and the like. I also venture a guess that it can be used to improve already existing equipment to make them more powerful, but don't count on this as fact.

    An aftermarket item economy would be very interesting indeed.

    Three: Probably. Repair bills are a giant part of an MMO money sink to keep items and gold moving, and they've specifically said that War Plots have a maintenance cost--if your Death Fortress is trashed, this month's income is going to fixing it back up and probably replacing some of your defenses.

    While I won't say that gear will disappear forever, there could be serious repercussions to wearing a trashed set. Also, there could be "Key" War Plot defenses that are consumable or irreparable if wrecked.

    Four: Maybe. Exotic materials from bosses or dungeons are a great idea to incentive people to run the content, though I assume most of the materials will come from the open world or your personal forest/mine.

    Five: Yes. Carbine has created numerous viable outlets for End Game. If you don't want to Raid, you have Dungeons; if you don't want to do PvE, you can PvP your way to cap; if you don't want to craft, there's probably an extensive Auction House system or something that allows crafters to sell their precious creations to other players.

    I presume it's all a matter of money vs time. You could theoretically raid for your base items, farm your own materials, and train up to craft your uber-modified gear, but you can also just pay someone else to do it for you. Big CREDD incentive right here, and doesn't lock out players or force them to do something they don't want to--barring farming and selling CREDD for gold, after all.

    I'm not saying you're just going to be able to get someone to craft for you without some form of reimbursement, unless you have plenty of friends and lots of favours.
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  10. Gallows

    Gallows New Cupcake

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    Im pretty sure the answers to your 3 questions are: no, no and no. What you want is a sandbox game with player driven... everything. Something like SWG or EVE. WS will be a themepark game with some sandbox elements in the PvP/housing part. I really dont see Carbine making people organize a 40 man raid, work on it for weeks and then either give them rewards subpar to crafted items or rewards which will wear out and disappear after a couple of days/weeks. Just not going to happen.
  11. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    They haven't told us about crafting for a reason. It's a difficult part of an MMO to do right. They have no clear idea of how it should work to be engaging, fun and how to implement it in a way which would make crafters feel unique. So they iterate on the system/s constantly hopping that something will finally work. They do not shy from changing big parts of this system to make it better. But I have a feeling that after all that hard work they will end up with system similar to WoW :p
  12. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am always afraid when crafters ask if it will be worth it, because that can only mean one thing. They want to craft huge as epic <REDACTED> on par to what raiders can get, without raiding.

    Why does that scare me? 2 reasons!
    #1 Game will become p2w
    #2 Crafting takes no skill whatsoever.
  13. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't think Carbine will be so stupid as to make Crafted Gear on par with Raid Gear. If anything, it'll be a pre-Raid set or an alternative for those who want to be 2nd or 3rd BiS.
  14. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope crafting will
    #1 be strong
    #2 require some skill.

    Maybe make us kill things that are pretty crazy for some crafting materials - then either go for PVP or PVE to finish the item and it is pretty strong for both.

    As in...Make it as time and skill consuming for all people.

    I hated WoW's approach after TBC. First of all - Blacksmithing. No specializations, which means you can just craft whatever you want...But it won't help. PVP? Mediocre starting gear, that's it.

    PVE? Hahaha. Recipes dropped very rarely and when they dropped you had to be lucky that it was for Blacksmith AND for your needs (Heal paladin shoulders/DPS/Tank? All 3 can drop)...And then? You needed a huge amount of material for it which was pretty much just nonsensical farming (which I can enjoy if I get a good reward) but in the end your reward was - at best - on par with normal raiding gear.

    Whose dropchance is way higher than the effort you will put into grinding the mats AND finding the recipe.

    Make it worth it. And make it fun. Clicking on a menu button and having it or rightclicking 500 times + dropchance is neither engaging nor enjoyable.

    I know it's hard to balance, but I'd rather have crafting be too strong than have it be useless - you have to think about how you actually level it up first to get access to these recipes aswell - which no one ever seems to care about: Leveling.

    Make leveling your crafting profession fun - atleast give us good leveling gear (A little better than quest gear? Obviously! You put alot of effort into it, and I think that's just fair. Also nobody gives a flying f*** about gear in Low levels anyway :p ) so that there is a nice reward at the end.

    I think Carbine will get this right. Also I'm getting hyped to play again which isn't good. I want to be neutral goddamnit.


    €:
    Now that's some Path of Exile thinking. I really like the idea and the sound of that. Might happen.

    WoW had you keep several items through entire addons - Look at the shard of Woe that lowered your manacost of all your skills - crazy for an arcane mage whose spammy Arcane blast just gets more manacosty with every usage (on a % basis), making his burst phase so much longer.

    Or the Ironfoe - triple executes, anyone? Made warrior actually viable in Vanilla - same goes for enhancement shamans. (If you say no, you never tried it - atleast in PVP.)

    Or a recent item which will stay BiS for a long time I predict: The unerring vision of Lei Shen. Buuut I made a whole thread to this stuff.
  15. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    That still leaves the 2 problems though.

    How do you stop p2w when everyone is running around crafting uber <REDACTED>, and slapping it on the AH?
    Ohh, just so we are clear, p2w = pay cash for an advantage.

    Imagine if you could just skip MC in vanilla WoW, because you bought some gold. How broken would that be? How much would that demean the effort of the millions of people who struggled through MC?


    Crafting can only be good in a game that completely revolves around crafting.
    Those games suck donkey balls though, and it would break any other game.
  16. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    You assume everyone is going to be able to produce epic gear just like that, and that epic gear on the AH will be so common and cheap that everyone can buy it and gear themselves up.

    From what I've seen from Circuit Board Crafting, it's going to be a matter of patience, diligence, and just plain luck to craft "uber" gear. You're going to have to get the materials to craft the item, make sure it has a good layout, and even then have great chips and power amps to slot into it--not an easy feat, if Carbine has done it right.

    Yes, a person who has bought CREDD can conceivably buy great gear on the AH. But remember: WildStar is not solely about your gear score. Even if you are statistically more powerful than another person gear-wise, this is action combat, and your skill is even more important than your gear score.

    Secondly, where the hell did you get the idea that you can just buy your way through a dungeon/raid? You can buy gear to stand a better chance, of course, but you're still going to have to slog it through the mobs and the bosses--and if you aren't a good enough player, then the even the best gear in the game won't save you.

    There isn't going to be a way to just pay your way through a dungeon/raid; that would be just stupid and the epitome of P2W: you don't even have to play the damn game to win.
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  17. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    Welcome to WSC (WildStar Central). Here is a link to the Personal Introductions Forum. You are not required to post there, but it is a good way to meet some of our friendliest members. Tell Kat I said hi.

    One of the devs, may have been Jeremy Gaffney, in an interview stated that mounts in WildStar would require upkeep. If mounts are going to have some kind durability loss I think it is safe to assume that player gear will as well. Carbine has also spoken about the need for gold sinks to maintain a healthy economy (limits inflation).

    Players who don't want to craft will still have options to acquire goods. Auction house, guild banks, etc.
  18. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    What I meant was,
    If you can buy gear equivalent to tier 1 raid gear, then you don't have to go to the tier 1 raid.
  19. Syn

    Syn Cupcake

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    I enjoy crafting, personally I would like to see them complement crafting with endgame content too, like having maybe an epic recipe or two drop from an instance, would be nice and keep both content types relevant in my opinion.
  20. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't think you can buy gear equivalent to tier 1 Raid Gear, and never will.

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