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How to make a Sub based game work! Nerf the Sub! (long)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by TuxedoMask, Dec 22, 2013.

?

Would you rather play?

  1. World of Warcraft 15 dollar sub

    29.2%
  2. Wildstar 9.99 sub

    70.8%
  1. TuxedoMask

    TuxedoMask Cupcake

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    It's no secret that the pay to play model is essentially dead. Personally I feel that a sub is fine as long as there is quality content, along with new content added at a steady rate. Before I get into this "radical" idea that I have, I first want to address that the reason why a game like WoW has been the only successful MMO to adopt and keep the sub-based model is because of content and gameplay. First and foremost that is the standard, whether you hate WoW or not, if you are a Developer planning to adopt the pay to play model you have to be willing (and have the staff and funds) to do basically what Blizzard does with updates and content hopefully you would be better at nerfs/buffs when it comes to pvp but that's a different rant.
    Rather than ranting about WoW (a game I recently quit) I'm going to compare the sub model to something completely different and how it could apply to a new game wanting to find a market.
    Netflix, yes yes, not a mmo or game, but they destroyed a huge corporation essentially single-handed that company was Blockbuster, who in their own right destroyed a ton of mom and pop video stores.
    Blockbuster was basically the Wal-Mart of video rentals which in the early 90s on was a heavy-weight and THE GO TO store for anything having to do with movies and game rental.
    As radical as Blockbuster was in the idea of making a Wal-Mart for Movie rentals, they fell behind in the times and were no longer trying to stay ahead of everyone else, they were content with not pushing or expanding their business. Along comes the internet and for the most part this was the beginning of the end of Blockbuster.
    Enter Netflix, even though they didn't have a great selection they were the at the cutting edge when it came to how the product was delivered. A sub based fee for unlimited rental and it was one key feature that pushed them to the top and now they have a ton of followers (even Blockbuster).

    $9.99

    People don't like seeing a monthly deduction over 10 dollars, double digit for that matter so that 1 cent made a huge difference when marketing. People said to themselves "hey I'll try this because it's barely 10 bucks, that's not a big deal and I can probably afford that" .

    Now we have all sorts of online ads for sub based companies wanting you to try their product and they know that you are more inclined to try at 9.99 because of things like Netflix which really paved the way for how subs work.

    Can a Sub work for MMOs? Yes, absolutely it can and they have, however they have to be willing to think a bit more radically. WoW does 15 and they have since launch which was 10 years ago basically, they lose more and more people every Quarter and they are stuck in their ways (similar to Blockbuster), instead of trying to get new people to play their game and subscribe, they are content with keeping their old players even though many are leaving.

    Wildstar could be successful at a 15 dollar mark, it's possible and I'm not saying it isn't. If they (and any MMOs) are serious about subs then they have to be willing to do the radical change and think ahead.
    Undercutting the competition at a 9.99 mark and putting out a quality product that rivals WoW means that you are opening up for a higher influx of new characters and you would set yourself up for higher retention as well.

    Some may say I'm way off base with this, I would say this, take 2 equally designed products (which netflix never was) put them side by side and ask yourself, would you rather pay 15 dollars or 9.99 per month?

    There hasn't been any talk by any developers from Carbine about lowering the sub but perhaps there should be? From a Marketing standpoint this swing would be huge news, since for starters no (good) MMO has ever done this before and also it says that Carbine understands that the 15 dollar a month subscription that WoW currently has is failing, and rather than fail as well they are willing to directly acknowledge it and just like how much of a difference there game is from WoW, the sub fee is different as well.

    Some gamers might not care about the price in the beginning (launch) but month by month if the game ever does become uninteresting it is in the back of every gamers mind, "should i continue with this games subscription".

    So in conclusion, I do believe it's time to Nerf the Subscription fee to something that has been proven to work (in a different market) and making it your own, is Wildstar a WoW clone? Using the same sub model is a big part in how the customers perceive a game. Instead of saying you are in competition with Blizzard, you should be trying to absolutely crush them and that is what I am getting at, that is how a crappy product like Netflix took down a juggernaut like Blockbuster, and that should be how Carbine sees Blizzard.

    If Carbine does this first, it would get a even bigger market involved. Not just Ex-WoW players and F2P players, but they would actually be taking subs from Blizzard (if both products are of equal quality).

    I know this was long, and if you read all of this then thanks I hope I hit the bullets needed to convince. If I failed, well, it's an idea and at least in my opinion it should be the standard.

    Thanks
    -Tux out
    Zilong and DennisZadeh like this.
  2. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    First time browsing back on these forums and the first thing is see is people asking to pay less and being convinced that it is about their logic and not about simply wanting to pay less.

    MMO prices hasn't increased since the 90's, that's a price reduction enough if you compare it to other things, if you think companies are keeping it artificially high you're mistaken, if they could easily drop the price to increase competitivity and stay economical viable you don't think over of their well payed employees in the marketing and finance branch would've pushed for that idea and it be a wide spread occurrence by now?

    I do hope radical idea was mentioned jokingly, my, my, the special snowflakes sure come out in the winter.
  3. Dexsoul

    Dexsoul New Cupcake

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    That's the answer Gaffer gave when someone asked the same thing in reddit. The discussion sparks on many interesting topics. Give it a good read.
  4. Oconnell

    Oconnell Cupcake

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    I'm only going to say one thing: Your polls are bad. They're pointless and biased.
    Mellkor, Syn, Katu_Kath and 6 others like this.
  5. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    I have friends that are now no longer considering playing Wildstar because it will be pay to play, even with the ability to pay with in game currency. These people blow an obscene amount of money on finishers, toys, costumes, far more than a sub costs, but they do not want to pay to play.
  6. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    And I've got 17 people from my old WoW guild that breathed a huge sigh of relief when I told them W* was NOT F2P. That's a very subjective response. Neither is right/wrong, Good/Bad. Neither of our statements prove or disprove anything.
    Oconnell, Fuzedknight and Etan like this.
  7. Deavon

    Deavon Cupcake

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    Very well sad:up:
  8. Rhialto

    Rhialto New Cupcake

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    Your poll isn't good. Of course we would rather pay a small sub fee, why not? However, 50 cents a day (15.00 per month) is very reasonable for a large game that I hope to play for hundreds of hours.

    Regarding subs in general, I much prefer a game with a sub where everything is included. I do not like being nickel and dimed in the cash shop. I do not mind a cash shop with fluff items, but I detest having to buy stuff like in-game chat, extra bank slots, etc., with RL currency. Let me pay a sub and play the game.
  9. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    On what basis out of curiosity? I see why folks do not want P2P, but not sure I get the reverse.
  10. Taher

    Taher Cupcake

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    F2P games generally lack content updates and tend to fail miserably. By making the game P2P allows for regular updates, constantly improving the game and provide more "bang for your buck", as some say.
  11. Agent Drew

    Agent Drew Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wasn't the sub back in the original Everquest $15 a month?

    Does anyone ever consider inflation?

    Or how about the fact that even if you can't farm enough cash to get credd on a monthly basis you could still try and get it every other month and essentially cut that sub IN HALF!
    Perigon and Brisselio like this.
  12. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    Constant flow of money through the game store generates money in the same way a subscription service would and would allow for regular updates and constantly improving the game if they wish to keep store revenue flowing. I do not see games failing miserably because of f2p vs p2p, just that they were bad games.

    P2P seems like it would be easier for a business to plan around cash flow so I understand it from a business perspective, but I think F2P done properly can earn a lot more money than a sub, it is just not as predictable.
    BLAPPiN, Livnthedream and Ianpact like this.
  13. Taher

    Taher Cupcake

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    Hm. Any examples of an F2P that has done this before?
  14. Deavon

    Deavon Cupcake

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    that constant flow of money your talking about is most of the time used for new content for the shop not for the game.
    If the company's don't do that then the constant flow will be drained in no time.

    And it breeds a new kind of player the greedy kind.
    I've seen it happen in allot of F2P models. Player crying about wanting 2 have new gear or costumes, mounts ect.
    Because of this the in game content gets a direct hit.
    Taher likes this.
  15. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    That kind of content is released in a P2P game as well, so I see it as the same amount of content, the same amount of money, just a different way the money is generated. People cry about wanting more in every game I have ever played, regardless of its pay model.
  16. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    In Global Agenda I spent more through the store than I would have on a subs and so far I would say in GW2 I spend a bit less on the store than I would on a sub, but that is because in my opinion GW2 did a poor job of the store as it pertains to WvW players, it was not till just recently you started to see finishers. How much time could a finisher take and look how much money they make off of them.
  17. Deavon

    Deavon Cupcake

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    i do not say that the content is not generated in P2P models but its implemented on a different level with a different mindset.

    And your right about players crying for more in all the games, of course.
    But that is something that has bin created by F2P.
    When i started with MMO ( EQ, SWG ) players were patient and didn't mind waiting a year or longer for extra content.
    Even though there where F2P models like silkroad who offered new content as if it was nothing.
    In those days F2P models where not so wanted as they are now and so it had a little impact.

    And i know BLizz did it with WoW. And that is also one of the reasons that players got impatient for content. Its a shame that a milk cow like WoW created something like that,
  18. GoatSlayrr

    GoatSlayrr Well-Known Cupcake

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    I have a much better idea on how to make a sub game work.

    And this is pretty radical here, but stay with me...


    Make a good game that's worth the sub fee.
  19. Deavon

    Deavon Cupcake

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    Thats all that needs to be done m8 ;)
    But if bin waiting on that for the last 6 years now :p so keeping my fingers crossed :D
  20. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    The folks I game with perceive F2P as low quality. We have enjoyed various times in F2P but most of them spent 3-5 years in WoW (a few of us still dabble). They are looking for something that will hold their interest for longer than 6-8 months, and as a group we have not found that in a game that started or converted to F2P (DCUO, GW2, SWTOR as examples). Again however, I stress, that has been our experience, our subjective experience. Its anecdotal, and examples can be found that are opposite of ours. It is quite possible we are hunting Unicorns, that WoW was a new experience and that we may never find it again. A Sub is certainly no guarantee of a good game, but to me it indicates the Devs are confident in a longer term survival rate for their game.

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