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How to make a Sub based game work! Nerf the Sub! (long)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by TuxedoMask, Dec 22, 2013.

?

Would you rather play?

  1. World of Warcraft 15 dollar sub

    29.2%
  2. Wildstar 9.99 sub

    70.8%
  1. Bazeleel

    Bazeleel Cupcake-About-Town

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    Even at 8.50$/mo that's still 800 million dollars. I fail to see your point. Unless all their employes are making millions a year...that alone is enough to run them. There is what, last time I checked, 20 people working on hearthstone right now.

    SCII has it's own team.

    Again the cost to money earned doesn't logically make sense when they are pulling in at minimums 800 million a year.

    Games cost at most 100 million to make and we all know most of those game suck.


    Again money earned to money spent doesn't support a argument that it's not affordable to lower the cost of sub fees for blizzard. Unless they are just throwing money at hookers left and right.
  2. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Last quarter their company wide gross revenue was $691m and their total operating cost was $621m. While $70m for 3 months sounds like a lot, for the kind of company/publisher that Blizzard is its small beans in all honesty. You are drastically underplaying just how expensive these games are to make and maintain, especially on the timescale they operate on.

    To put it in perspective, for the same budget that has been given to Wildstar, the same size budget was given to make the movie Battleship. And in all honesty Battleship will likely being more lucrative for 2-3 years yet.
  3. Hambledurger

    Hambledurger New Cupcake

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    These threads... they are like weeds. I'm not sure why they keep coming up.

    The company has decided on a business model and it should be easy to accept or not. It's obnoxious that people see a game they really want to play but demand they get it for free. If free is the only price for a player, then the game company gets exactly the same amount of money whether that player plays the game or not.

    As for OP's arguement: is $5 a month really going to change your mind about this game? Don't worry about how much money Carbine stands to make or not make. They created a product and are offering a continued service for their product at $15 a month. If it is a decent product, why does it matter that they are profiting? They are still a business- it doesn't make sense that they should have cut their profits just because you want to pay $5 less per month for the game they created. I'm also not sure how it comes off as greedy when $15 has been the industry standard for quite some time.

    Just my $0.02 or $15 or $5 or whatever...
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  4. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    The argument I make is a f2p game players end up having to spend even more than they would with a sub in order to 'compete'. Those mmos are built around forcing players to buy from a cash shop or some kind of extra service.

    I think you miss the point in lowering the sub. It's not so the company makes less money, it's so it attracts more players. I personally think that amount would be quite significant. The good folk at Carbine think otherwise. Keep in mind charging more doesn't necessarily mean a bigger profit. Look up the Laffer Curve. Can be applied here as well.
  5. Rooly

    Rooly New Cupcake

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    As it's been said already, the poll is flawed as one, it is more likely that given the option people would pay less where possible and two, that the very fact that they signed up to a wildstar forum means they are more likely to select wildstar over other games.

    You have already accepted the fact that the payment model is largely subscription based but you think that it is in the best interests of the game to lower the subscription. It is in Carbines best interests to make the most profit they can from the game, so it is fair to assume that if they believed that they would make more profit by lowering the price then they would do exactly that. It is also fair to assume that, given the amount of combined experience in the genre that the team have that: -
    • They have access to far more statistical data around this subject.
    • They have far more insight into the psychology of gamers within the genre.
    • They have paid experts whose sole job it is to try and model exactly what will end up being most profitable.
    So whilst it is obviously valid for you to have an opinion on this subject, random forum guys opinion is not likely to hold much weight.
  6. radman

    radman New Cupcake

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    I will only play sub games.

    Assuming that the quality of content is there. Sub games are so much better.
  7. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Said no evidence ever.
  8. Merganser

    Merganser New Cupcake

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    Well, I voted for "Rather play Wildstar at 9.99" It seemed to be fairly obvious, particularly if you would prefer Wildstar to WoW. (Which I'm guessing most people on this board do.)

    However, I'd still happily pay £8.99 for Wildstar, same as WoW.

    I also don't agree with many of the assumptions and claims made in the OP that Wildstar would be better off with a lower subscription and similar.
  9. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    LOL
  10. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    1. It is not perception. It is what I experienced. The annoyance of always being limited in the game and constantly bombarded with new frills and bells and whistles to get you to pay, that is not perception. That is what they do. And it's annoying to me. Maybe not to you, but to me it is. This is personal taste, not perception.

    2. Well fine, if you want to call paying a sub a gimmick, then it's a gimmick I can tolerate. The other alternative, I cannot.

    3. I'm not agruing this. I said that F2P is probably more lucrative than sub. That was never my point. I said that it was more regular income instead of being based on whenever the company rolls out the next gimmick. But which model is more successful was not what I was debating. I already said many times that F2P is more successful because most people run when they see "free" on anything. Doesn't mean that I enjoy the way this model has to work. I don't and I never will. To each his own. That's all I'm trying to say.
  11. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    LOL You just said the whole entire issue is about perception, so if it's all about perception, then why are you asking for evidence? In my post above, I said it's really not even perception, it's personal taste. So you can stop asking for evidence because there is nothing to prove. Again I will say, this is not about which model is more successful, it's about what model and system you enjoy more.
  12. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    You need to go look up the definition of perception mate.

    Its not an "if" it is just as much of a gimmick as f2p. Take this for example:
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2012/01/11/f2p-vs-subs/

    I wasn't asking for evidence. He stated "Sub games are definitively better" and there is absolutely zero evidence to support that. Even in terms of which model gets enjoyed more that is clearly f2p. While some players will leave when a game goes f2p, the majority will stay because for them it generally doesn't matter. The hardcore "teh sub is bestest and only model that matters" people have already lost this.
  13. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Again, can't argue here either. I agree and have stated more than once that F2P is obviously more popular. It's only natural for people to be drawn to a "free" label because they don't have to pay. But just because more people like something certainly doesn't make it superior.

    Fact: F2P and sub model games each will generally have a different feel and game experience.
    Fact: There are people whose personal taste will lean towards sub or F2P because of this.
    Fact: My personal taste along with several on this forum leans towards sub.
    Fact: No one can argue that one is "better" than the other, they are just different.

    Whether someone doesn't mind being constantly gimped or limited or presented with sales gimmicks and whether others don't mind having to fork out money every month in order to not feel limited or gimped... again, it's all personal taste. You can't even play the F2P version of SWTOR without actually being gimped, feelings aside, so a whole lot of people who play that game just sub because they don't care for this. All I'm saying is, I am in the sub model camp. Personal taste. Nothing left to argue about.
  14. Menchi

    Menchi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Then any game with a sub fee is a cash shop, by your definition. You pay a sub, you get access to the whole game, which is all in-game items. Voila. Your argument has holes.
  15. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Here is the problem, your opinion is formed in ignorance, as you continue to show. You denigrate f2p as being popular "cause its free" but don't address the other side effects, like not being able to play with friends who cannot afford it, or don't want to risk blowing money on a game they do not really like. This is especially true of mmo's and how different leveling and endgame experiences are. Similarly, you keep making statements that are not inherent to the f2p model and then blaming the model for it. Its not a fact that p2p and f2p have to "feel" different, nor do you have to be gimped. Its like saying that making users pay for expansions is something the p2p model must do too, and its clearly not.F2p is not inherently "gimmicky", at least not any more than p2p is. Hell, instead of writing this maybe I should have just told you to actually read the post I linked, as it addressed it all already.

    Most of the bias for one model or another comes from having a bad experience. Much like how many people treat vegetables and the like until they get a recipe they actually like.
  16. Ianpact

    Ianpact Cupcake-About-Town

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    Warrior stares intently.

    **blink**blink**


    "Ugh, Warrior's head hurt. I not understand why people keep talking when people have not new things to say."

    **nods twice with closed eyes look of confirmation**

    "Warrior will wash brain of pointless noise. Yes, Warrior will do pro-duck-hive things like playing with bunny in bubble helm."
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  17. Channon

    Channon New Cupcake

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    I'm sure there are at least one person who is actually qualified to figure out how much they should charge as a fee based on facts working at Carbine. Frankly, I'll pay some extra money just so I don't have to encounter all the cheap people who doesn't want to pay an extra $5 a month. I already spend $30 for 2 hours of entertainment, a <REDACTED>ty hot dog, way too much popcorn and a gallon of soda.
  18. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    People forget what a ridiculously cheap hobby playing an mmo with a sub is. It's about the cheapest form of entertainment that exists.

    But, you know, there's always going to be the kids who want the world for free. I'm in my mid-30s....and I know they'll learn the old axiom eventually: you get what you pay for.
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  19. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Except that is not a primary driver of why companies go f2p. They do it so they can monetize their base better. Ie some people are willing to spend more money and a sub doesn't allow them to do that.
  20. King Radinov

    King Radinov Cupcake

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    I know this is true, but it's kind of odd how many of them pay so much more than the sub price in a given month but will swear against ever paying a sub for a game. Just an outsider's observation. I don't care either way, really. I just want to play something good.

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