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I miss Non-Healer Support...

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Arkavien, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    My favorite class I have ever played in any MMO was the Fixer in Anarchy Online. I was good not great at dealing damage, but I was always wanted in groups because I had the ability to let everyone in the group have more buffs on themselves, the best runspeed buff in the game, the best long term HoTs in the game (they lasted a few minutes so were more like buffs than heals) and the best teleport spells in the game for getting groups into/out of missions faster meaning we could do more missions per hour thus gaining the most xp/money/items etc etc.

    I love playing support characters that aren't healers, but gone are the days of Bards, Mentalists, Fixers, Red Mages and Engineers it seems.

    Am I alone or did anyone else love playing these types of characters too? Is there just no place for my favorite playstyle in modern MMOs?

    Also, do you think perhaps in WildStar with the limited action set, one might be able to fill the bar with mostly stuns/grapples/mezzes etc and be a viable "controller" type?

    Obviously none of us know for sure, but it's fun to speculate.
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  2. Eastwood

    Eastwood New Cupcake

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    Anarchy Online was my first MMO experience. I played an Engineer and damn it was fun! I loved the idea of having a robot companion that whooped ass while I shot from a distance. It was an interesting class to play. My robot could even offtank when needed. Fun stuff.
  3. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    I actually never got around to playing any of the really old school mmo's back in the day, but I full heatedly sympathies with you point of view, i feel like true non-healing support characters adds alot of flavor to the game and a lot of fun to the players playing those classes.

    MMO's seems to have realy turned towards everything has to be balanced and equal.

    With design glasses I do see why you would like everything to be nicely and tidy balanced, but as a player i really love when stuff is very unbalanced and you can do some crazy creative stuff you can "figure out".

    The problem is now a days people don't figure it out over time they find it on youtube 1-24 Hours after someone discovered it and thereby making it widespread extremely fast.

    I love using Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 as an example when discussing this, there were some clearly complete and utterly broken things in diablo2 taht you figured out and it was AWESOME!, especially when you figured it out.

    In Diablo 3 2-4H After someone discovered a new overpowered build, every moderately active player of that class used it and it got shut down hard, and most stuff ended up feeling "meh" "everything have alklreddy been discovered", "nothing left for me to find", therefore making the aspect of figuring out builds alot less fun.

    it's one of those things, were even with all the great things that the internet have brought it has also made some stuff less fun., ehm I think i got out on a tangent here heeh, anyways, some times you just end up missing the old days were everything didn't have to be so damn streamlined and balanced :)
  4. Mykor

    Mykor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Used to love playing as shadow priest in WoW before they balanced it out.

    I was ok with not topping the charts because I would usually get a 'Thanks' from my party members (mostly the healers) at the end of the fights.

    Would love to see the last two classes be support-type as long as their role is an essential one
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  5. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    I remember those days they were fun :)

    I really liked shamans as mana support as well, Once i played a resto shaman i never went back to a priest.
  6. Ghillie

    Ghillie New Cupcake

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    I've also wondered this. I know a lot of people that would shudder at the prospect of playing a true support class and I imagine that they are in the majority in that regard. However, there are those that love providing pure utility. With only 6 classes, I'm very excited at the prospect of using your spell load-out to really fine tune your role in a 40-man group.

    The ability to cherry pick abilities really opens up a lot of interesting possibilities. Will there be a place in a raid for a character built for pure control? Do you get a handful of people to "spec" this way and have them focus solely on CC and interrupt armor so DPS can min/max for their role? I'm interested to see how it will play out.
  7. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Old Fixer in AO here and a Shaman and Bard and Enchanter in EQ. I sorely miss non - healing support.

    Think it's a thing of the past, though. Much easier to design tank and DPS spank dungeons.
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  8. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    Fixer profession is best profession. Time to go fast and all over the world. That's all anyone needs in a class.
  9. Zel

    Zel Cupcake

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    I love support classes! back in Aion i played a Chanter, which combined mediocre DPS, some healing, and a supersized amount of team buffs. Likewise in RIFT i raided as an Archon, where the only reason i ever DPSed was because it buffed my raid or debuffed the enemy when i did so.

    In Wildstar i plan to form a limited action set of a large variety of support abilities with whichever class i deem the most efficient at it...I figure, if i have a large amount of the utility, it means other members of my raid can forgo that utility in favour of greater healing or DPS.
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  10. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    We don't really know all of the available skills to the classes yet. It might be entirely possible to say build an Esper support character that relies more on group buffs and preventing or lowering damage rather than outright healing of the damage. I guess that's one good role of the LAS system. Even if such skills aren't available at launch, it would be easy to put such skills into the game at a later date.
  11. Exo

    Exo New Cupcake

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    Let's hope, loved my loremaster set in early Lotro, refilling power meters and crowd control. I call it the fourth side to the holy trinity, the wild card. not a heal, tank or DPS, but does bring something that helps the team in a fight.
  12. SykoTavo

    SykoTavo Cupcake

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    The closest thing to this I've heard a Dev say is about tanks. Frost has said as an example that, using the Limited Action Bar, a tank could choose to be (A) the type that just stands there and takes dmg; (B) the type that dodges all the dmg; (C) the type that moves around stunning and cc'ing the mob to prevent it from doing any dmg or; (D) any other type of tank depending on the skills you choose.

    I suppose the same will go for other classes and roles.
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  13. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Well-Known Cupcake

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    In EverQuest, my main was a Bard and one of the most important classes in raids because of my support/utility. I could memory blur mobs, enchant mobs, provide buffs, DPS, and perform difficult pulls that no other class could do.

    Now I miss my Bard... :cry:
  14. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    Yea I remember seeing that interview Syko and it made me wonder if I might play a tank main in Wildstar instead of my usual healer main if I can "spec" mostly Stuns/Grapples/Utility and stuff like that.

    I think the main problem will be that even if it IS possible to be a completely effective group member speccing that way, the masses will shun you for not being the typical "holy trinity" role and you will constantly have to fight for group spots to prove you deserve it.

    I've done it in the past and I will do it again though. Some of my favorite memories of MMOs involves someone saying "We can't do this with an *insert my class* we need a *insert whatever is considered best healer in the game*!!!" and me saying "Just pull...I got this" and the group does great =)
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  15. Ghillie

    Ghillie New Cupcake

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    Yeah, a lot of times it boils down to people having to react differently to the play style of a class or spec they aren't used to reacting to. Change is rarely popular, especially impromptu change.
  16. SykoTavo

    SykoTavo Cupcake

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    The
    Sadly, there will always be a "better" or "best" way to do something in MMOs. Unless the devs can accomplish "perfect balance", which is close to impossible. However, that is no reason for you to not play the way you want to play and prove to others that your way can be effective as well. If you can do that and still recieve negative reactions from players, then those players are just close minded @$$#O!3$ and you should not be bothered by them. This is why I usually stay away from big, hardcore, elitist guilds. How dare they tell me how I should play?!!!!:mad:

    Anyways, it seems to me that one of Carbine's top priorities is to allow for this diversity of play-style. It is precisely why they are using the Limited Action Bar system.

    Also, most of us use the way previous games do things as reference, and rightly so. However, Wildstar's systems are so different from everything else that we can't assume that something that works or doesn't work in a current system will work or not work in Wildstar. We just have to wait and see :)

    I'm not worried.
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  17. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    (Neat, Firefox is bugging around on here and Chrome actually works.)

    Aight. So, I really dig the idea of supporters. As in, true supporters. Spells that increase the damage made by others, spells that fortify your party's defenses etc.

    I'd really like that. What I see is that you can set up your hotbar in a very free way and thus create a full CC tank with just 2 damage spells, maybe a full damage esper with a few heals and:

    A supporting (class goes here) with all kinds of utility spells. I think that'd be amazing.
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  18. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    There are multiple reasons why non-healing support class has been diminished/eliminated in newer games. One of the main reasons is the population that wants to non-heal support is a smaller one, and it is one that will likely take people away from the current pool of tanks or healers (which already have shortages for grouping purposes). Another, is the focus on class representation and balance in groups/raids and similarly the trend to focus on quantitative output of members. Also, as another poster stated it is easier to create and balance the content with Tank/Healer/DPS in mind, especially if you try to make the support optional (to avoid the population requirements problem).

    Certainly, with the LAS you can create a support-based deck, but the issue comes with balancing the group with a support deck member and a group with support skills dispersed between the 3 dps. Even if it is balanced in terms of output, it is likely better to disperse the support skills as there is value in redundancy, with less riding on a single player, and changing CC requirements in a fight could leave the pure support with little to do.
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  19. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Long gone are the days of the class that can crowd-control/agro-wipe/replenish resource meters, such as the Everquest bard or enchanter. DC Universe Online attempted to bring it back with the Controller role, but failed horribly on the crowd-control end; the role essentially ended up a "mana battery".

    Bnol lists a few reasons above, but I think one of the reasons why the support/CC role has diminished is because players generally feel the game is slower when MOBs are held/slept/whatevered. Players want the game to feel fast-paced; only beating on one bad guy at a time while the others stand around is slow. It's better to have 25 guys whacking on the tank's face while the healer holds his breath chain healing and everyone AOE's the entire dungeon at once.

    I have often wondered if the problems of "too much DPS" could actually be lightened if a game successfully had a fourth role, support, that focused on primarily crowd-control and buffing/debuffing. Having this fourth role could possibly allow for the healer to provide a useful percentage of the group's damage output (rather than simply standing around waiting to cast a heal, as most healers are expected to do).

    A group would consist of 1 tank on which damage would be focused, 1 healer to provide health replenishment/team damage mitigation, 1 support to crowd-control/increase team damage/decrease enemy damage, and 1-2 primary damage dealers.

    Would any players who usually pick the damage role be interested in a healing or support class if the damage output they typically provide was increased?
  20. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

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    You will have non healer support,just wait for the last classes announcement.Also,all of the current classes have a few "support" skills that are not heals,so i guess you could make a support Warrior/Esper/Spellslinger/Stalker.

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