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I think there is going to be a faction imbalance

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by John, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's pretty much how it works, yeah. You have the Human and the Demihuman. And each demihuman represents a different facet of humanity. Orcs are violent and cruel, Vulcans are Intelligent, Goblins are greedy, Kender are childlike, and so on.

    This is because the human characters are meant to be the audience-analog. When you watch Star Wars you're not supposed to view the movies from Chewbacca's perspective, after all. They want you to see the movie as the humans do. And so Chewie, and other fantastic species, are only analogous insomuch as they relate to the character you're meant to relate to.

    Mirrored Caricatures as supporting cast. It also works the same way with racist and sexist depictions as supporting characters in most any media. You're meant to identify with the three dimensional protagonist and most other characters are duodimensional stereotypes against which the protagonist's third dimension stands out and draws the consumer in.

    Unfortunately, it continues to be a trope, even in situations where players are meant to identify with ALL of the player character species.

    -Rachel-
  2. Dedlaw

    Dedlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well I would hope for imbalance.

    How else can you be the underdog?
  3. Mimsy

    Mimsy New Cupcake

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    It would have been amazing to see something totally different, dare I suggest, 3 factions. I have often thought that this would have been amazing in WoW, particularly since there were some races that didn't seem to fit. The Tauren never seemed (philosophically) to fit in the Horde. This appears to be in the works for EDO, though I have some concerns about their execution of it. I don't know of any other MMO since DAOC that did it. Creative teams seem to either have trouble selling or envisioning anything other than 'us vs. them', which is a shame. Conflicts, lore, and pvp for sure, would be so much more interesting and complex...and potentially balanced with more than two factions.

    It's clearly not happening here, and no one seems willing to step out of tradition to do it...but it would be amazing to see again.
  4. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's an issue of time to reward.

    Each "Side" they create requires it's own set of content for the characters in that faction to go from level 1 to their max level. And any time they add more content for one side they have to add content to all other sides. If they increase the level cap they have to add level cap content for each side.

    They can either split their content generation time between the sides or create a single set of content that everyone gets to do. Either way there is only so much time to spend on content, so many writers, so many artists creating maps, and so forth.

    -Rachel-
  5. dRakk

    dRakk Cupcake

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    Jeremy Gaffney said himself that a 3 faction system is better. He went on to say however that due to the extra resources it takes it would leave them lacking in another area. He went on to talk about DAOC and not that I played it or can comment personally but basically said you could tell they half assed the content for 1 or 2 of the factions because they didnt have enough time/manpower etc. to do all 3 factions they way they might have wanted to. Personally I'm happier to have 2 polished factions, than 1 polished faction and 2 half assed ones.
    Tribe likes this.
  6. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I agree that 3 factions are best in a massive scale PvP game mode . Like DAoC, PS2 and WvW in gw2. 3 factions most of the time keep the balance.

    However I don't know how 3 factions would be in a smaller scale PvP like the PvP in wildstar.
    Having it be only 2 teams (or factions) makes it easier to determine the winner I feel. Also I think battles between 3 teams would drag on a bit.

    Played a bit of the 3 faction PvP in the secret world and did not enjoy it. However that could be because I could not get over the horrible combat *shrug*

    Imbalances in faction population would be solved by cross server PvP (which iirc is in wildstar) . Hoping we can have cross region PvP as well.
    It is one of my wishes for the game honestly to play PvP from my EU home server with my NA friends .
  7. Trigger

    Trigger Cupcake

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    There are games with 3 factions--Secret World and TESO. Maybe others.
    They are not better and I'm glad WS doesn't have them or that might be a deal-breaker.
    You are already splitting up the player base as it is with two because generally the other faction doesn't play with the opposite faction.
    A third faction splits up the player base more. That may not seem like that bad but once you account for all the different servers and faction balance, you are basically splitting up your game size 20-40 ways (depending on how many servers) and then dividing by 3. And then not every person is going to be playing at every single hour....


    At Wildstar Roleplay, there is a recent poll that accounts for mains only. According to the poll, 71.1% of RPers have voted their main to be 'Exiles'. If only WSC had a recent poll that only took in account for mains...
  8. Lisa

    Lisa New Cupcake

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    I keep running into post like this about people liking Exiles more than Dominion. I wonder what the real ratio is.
  9. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I am Dominion. I've been a Doomie even before the faction announcement.

    Is it wrong that if the imbalance is in my favor I am kinda ok with it. :p

    I kid I kid lol
  10. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    In regards to three faction PvP...

    TESO does not feature open world PvP. It restricts all PvP to one large zone Cyrodiil. It offers no PvP game modes other than the DAoC influenced siege warfare in Cyrodiil.

    TSW does not feature open world PvP. Each of TSW's three factions has a fight club in their respective faction capital, a free-for-all PvP zone of very limited size. Compare this to the much larger Outlaw's Den in SWToR. TSW does offer two instanced battlegrounds, Stonehenge and El Dorado. It also offers Fusang Projects a larger, persistant world, PvP zone. Of these various modes, the consensus among players of TSW seems to be that only El Dorado offers a quality PvP experince.

    Have we ever seen a game with three factions that offers open world PvP?

    How do you balance open world PvP in a game that only offers two factions?
  11. Trigger

    Trigger Cupcake

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    I actually wasn't really referencing PvP. I was saying that in a three faction system if there is no inter faction grouping, building, and/or communication that the playerbase would be divided up a great deal.
  12. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    Balancing Open World PvP has nothing to do with the quantity of factions. It involves the balancing of racial abilities, classes, and class abilities across all classes.

    Unfortunately, in any game which uses a class-differential structure wherein the different classes have strengths and weaknesses which the other classes "Fill in" during team-oriented PvE content such a balance is, at best, incredibly tenuous. At worst it makes each class feel samey with very little difference in overall playstyle. Carrying this design over to PvP, in turn, forces team-oriented PvP in the best of cases, and in the worst it simply leaves the different classes feeling like a textureless grey paste.

    Or are you referring to the quantity of players on a side, Tribe? If that's what you're referring to than any number of sides not determined by random luck of the draw will be unbalanced towards player preference of storytelling.

    -Rachel-
  13. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    faction imbalance has very little to do with races and has more to do with whichever faction is better at pvp on any give server. lemmings.
  14. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    That implies that a greater portion of the Population PvPs, or at least a significant enough minority that it leads to a one-sided mindset population shift.

    I find that unlikely.

    -Rachel-
  15. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    /shrug

    it's pretty typical even on pve servers. especially with places like wintergrasp. ever since transfers became an acceptable practice there's been huge discrepancies between populations. not that there weren't before .. not really sure, but I wasn't really paying attention before.

    there are still some balanced servers, but I think it's extremely unlikely that a majority of servers will be well balanced no matter what Carbine does.

    and really there is nothing wrong with that. in a 2 faction game based on instanced pvp .. it really doesn't matter all that much.
  16. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php

    While the servers themselves may have (RADICAL) imbalance, overall balance between the sides is roughly even. I suppose it really depends on their server structuring. If they follow the Shard model they'll likely wind up with a lot more variety in server feel due to side-bunching. If they use the monoserver instancing design, then there really won't be any problem.

    -Rachel-
  17. Luc

    Luc Cupcake-About-Town

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    you guys have to keep in mind that talking about percentage is huge! even 10%~15% difference is already a big imbalance because we are not talking about hundreds, we are talking about Thousands of players.

    And IMO Exiles will have more players. ( no clue how much bigger the community will be)
  18. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    Percentages seem huge when the number is divorced from it's source. 78 THOUSAND more Alliance Players than Horde is pretty huge!

    However: It is only 3% of the 2.6 million total players. And having 1,388,717 Alliance compared to "Only" 1,212,977 Horde really isn't that big of a difference.

    Though after looking at the individual server stats for PvP servers it seems like the servers with the greatest parity between sides (1 to 1.1-1.5) tend to be the more stable PvP servers with higher populations. Where the servers with higher than a 2-1 ratio tend to have lower populations overall, likely due to mass exodii to avoid untenable PvP situations.

    -Rachel-
  19. Jarek

    Jarek New Cupcake

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    Having played (and really enjoyed) TSW I can state that 3 factions does not negate faction imbalance in any way. And unless there is a game mechanic for making and breaking alliances, don't expect there to be any alliances (esp with aoe going off all over the place). The idea that the two weaker factions will work together to take on the dominant one is rarely born out in practice - although there are exceptions.

    Also as has been noted, some players will only roll on the dominant faction, or will transfer to a server where they are dominant in order to maximise rewards... be they PvP or "world domination"
  20. Axar

    Axar New Cupcake

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    Don't forget that hardcore PvE'rs and PvP'rs ppl will look upon racial abilities (if there is any, I did not follow that part of game yet) before choosing race.
    Like Human racial in WoW (free trinket - PvP), or Tauren stamina racial in vanilla and beyond (PvE).

    Cheers

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